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The new MiniDSP 2x4HD has made all my skills obsolete. How about yours?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post


    One thing is for sure, my background on passive designs shure came handy. I did notice what you are mentioning. I'm already figuring out I need more taps for my filters. 1024 per channel are nearly enough - but not quite.
    Increasing taps (samples) increases delay. At what point does this start to interfere with the human perception of audio/video sync?

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    • #17
      I've used the 2X4 with a Sure 4X100 amp. for 2 way systems driving each channel with a separate MiniDSP channel, shaping the signal individually for each driver. However, just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using 2 channels with each driving a 2 way tweeter/woofer combination, with a protective capacitor on the tweeter. In other words shaping the outputs using only 2 MiniDSP outputs, one each for L&R. I know this is unconventional, but has anyone tried it?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post

        Increasing taps (samples) increases delay. At what point does this start to interfere with the human perception of audio/video sync?
        I use Bodzio's Ultimate Equalizer and the manual says the tolerable limit of latency is 185ms.

        Ron
        C-Note Iron Driver Build
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        The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. - Neil deGrasse Tyson
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuGCJJUGsg

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        • #19
          Originally posted by TN Allen View Post
          I've used the 2X4 with a Sure 4X100 amp. for 2 way systems driving each channel with a separate MiniDSP channel, shaping the signal individually for each driver. However, just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using 2 channels with each driving a 2 way tweeter/woofer combination, with a protective capacitor on the tweeter. In other words shaping the outputs using only 2 MiniDSP outputs, one each for L&R. I know this is unconventional, but has anyone tried it?
          Not unconventional, three are quite a few 3 ways and 4 ways, where the DSP is used for crossover only for the bass or room response shaping, the TM or TMW are passive and the bass drivers or sub is active. But it is usually more than just a cap on the tweeter, usually a full fledged passive XO.

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          • #20
            Thanks for the response, I was thinking active, and for the combined tweeter & woofer, but no passive crossover circuit. This would not be as versatile as one channel per driver, but if the drivers were chosen carefully, might work with a single stereo amp. with L&R speakers.

            I'm thinking of ways to use a Dynaco tube amp., as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread. The 2X4HD looks like a simple, possibly elegant way to interface a digital source and tube power amp without a preamp and separate DAC. I realize there's probably no real advantage to this, however, it's something I've wanted to try. I could also add a second Dynaco, and use 4 channels, using 1 MiniDSP output per amp channel.

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            • #21
              I own my skills, and I decide when they are obsolete ;-)
              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TN Allen View Post
                I've used the 2X4 with a Sure 4X100 amp. for 2 way systems driving each channel with a separate MiniDSP channel, shaping the signal individually for each driver. However, just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using 2 channels with each driving a 2 way tweeter/woofer combination, with a protective capacitor on the tweeter. In other words shaping the outputs using only 2 MiniDSP outputs, one each for L&R. I know this is unconventional, but has anyone tried it?
                What you could do is make a crude filter for both the woofer, and tweeter that gets the blend from one to the other in the ballpark. Then use the DSP for BSC, and smoothing out any peaks. This might be a way to get a good x-over for a small box that doesn't have much room, or for use with a driver that has some issues that could be handled passively, but not cheaply. You should pick up some headroom above 400hz since the BSC would be accomplished by reducing the amps signal to the speaker.

                I just tried this in PCD. I used my current 2-way. The filter I ended up with for use with DSP was still 7 parts, which is about half as many as my passive, but I was forced to cross lower than my passive design. Attempts to do it with three or four parts did not work. Not even close. Two of the seven parts were resistors. They were important for getting a nice impedance.
                Last edited by rpb; 08-19-2017, 09:07 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by TN Allen View Post
                  I've used the 2X4 with a Sure 4X100 amp. for 2 way systems driving each channel with a separate MiniDSP channel, shaping the signal individually for each driver. However, just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using 2 channels with each driving a 2 way tweeter/woofer combination, with a protective capacitor on the tweeter. In other words shaping the outputs using only 2 MiniDSP outputs, one each for L&R. I know this is unconventional, but has anyone tried it?
                  Maybe I'm not interpreting this correctly, but it seems acoustic phase would be a problem. One of the most important aspects of the crossover is the phase alignment, not just matching the output level. If the speakers are out of phase, no amount of DSP will fix that, correct?

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                  • #24
                    If I read the links on the IIR vs. FIR filters (FIR being what the MiniDSP HD version does) then it can adjust phase separately from frequency, which means that the HD version will fix any phase issues and produce a linear phase response for the whole range of frequency. Which is a good thing!

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                    • #25
                      Additional
                      http://www.hxaudiolab.com/uploads/2/...ctitioners.pdf
                      "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                      “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                      "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by vapor602 View Post
                        ... no amount of DSP will fix that, correct?
                        See this example

                        "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                        “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                        "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sydney View Post
                          Thank you for this. It looks very informative, I scimed part of it on my phone, but need to read it in a larger format.

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                          • #28
                            This looks useful too, if I can understand it, it may be a way to do what I asked about above, shaping a response curve for 2 channels L&R.

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                            • #29
                              Additional:
                              http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset...asset_id=54114
                              Another article in: Live Sound Nov 2013
                              https://www.dirac.com/dirac-blog/equ...tandard-toolbo
                              "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                              “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                              "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                On Latency:
                                http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/europe...olute_latency/
                                Live Sound:
                                " The total system latency must be considered and managed carefully to ensure the best sound. ‘In-ear monitor’ applications are the most demanding and least tolerant of latency of any kind; a latency between about 5 and 10 milliseconds becomes noticeable, above 10 milliseconds the delay becomes too obvious. For PA FOH and monitor speaker systems the problem is relatively small, a one millisecond increase in latency corresponds with placing a speaker just 30 centimeters further away. "
                                from http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset...asset_id=47399
                                "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                                “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                                "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                                Comment

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