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Tangband w6-1139sif don't go deep on loud volume

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post

    Using a passive LP on the sub will require large components at that low freq. Most all subs have their low pass implemented in active electronics.

    What 2.1 board are you using (picture, etc.). The ".1" channel should have a LP filter built in. I've reverse engineered a few of these boards and have replaced two small box caps to achieve the exact LP filter I needed.
    I have this amplifier---> https://m.banggood.com/nl/DC12-25V-D...l?rmmds=search

    I can buy this, it have a crossover built in, but the second question is can you get distortion free 50 watt rms out off this amp( I mean all the tpa3116d2)


    http://www.dx.com/nl/p/feixiang-m-di...326912#reviews (it have a very small headsink :(

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post

      I have this amplifier---> https://m.banggood.com/nl/DC12-25V-D...l?rmmds=search

      I can buy this, it have a crossover built in, but the second question is can you get distortion free 50 watt rms out off this amp( I mean all the tpa3116d2)


      http://www.dx.com/nl/p/feixiang-m-di...326912#reviews (it have a very small headsink :(
      I have the amp you have with my personal mod's.

      There is an active, 2nd order LP filter on the sub channel (Sallen-Key topology). The corner freq. of the filter is governed by the two grey poly box caps (between the op-amps) and two resistors (silk screen indicates they are 47K). The two grey poly box caps can be swapped out with different values to change the corner freq and Q of the filter. If you have a multi-meter, verify the two surface mount 47K resistor values. And see if you can read the code on the two grey caps. I can then tell you the LP F3 - corner freq. Other members have had the same board mis-populated making the sub's LP filter useless (F3 of ~1K Hz). My board(s) came populated with a filter f3 of 107 Hz.

      Inherent in the design is a 1st order high pass filter on the sub channel. With the parts populated on my board, that filter's F3 is 34 Hz (was good for limiting xmax in my design).

      Lastly, the TPA3116 chip will handle most anything you can throw at it. With a 4 ohm sub and a 24 V PS, you'll get ~70 W rms, clean watts, into the sub. L and R will get ~35W rms into 8 ohms. The heat sink is small because the amp is digital. Where as a class A/B amp can be as inefficient as 30%. the digital chip averages 87% to 90% efficiency - much less heat is dissipated per watt out.

      I've used this amp my in my beach boom box, mostly at full volume on 26 V next to the Atlantic, putting out near 80 W rms to the sub and 40 W rms to each L-R channel.

      BTW: The amp's gain is set to 26 dB (20x amplitude gain from signal in to power signal out). A PC or laptop has sufficient signal out levels to drive the amp to full volume at 24 V. The headphone out signal from most phones / mp3 players will not have the amplitude to drive the amp to full volume. That was the case with me. I front-ended the amp with the Sure headphone amp available on PE (~$8). It has two gain settings of 9 dB and 15 dB. Did you job.

      Here's the schematic for the amp. Note the LP equations use 10K resistors that were populated on my board. The equations would have to be updated with the 47K resistors on your board.

      TPA3116 2.1 Amp Schematic.jpg

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      • #33
        Thanks Mike for the info, the number on the 2 Grey poly boxes is - - > 683J100

        Do you know which frequency the sub channel is playing( 5hz to 150hz? Original version!)

        I don't have a multi-meter but maybe I can buy one because it costs the same as expensive filtering. I already have buyed filters to set my w3-881sjf on 110hz.

        The last one, if I played music with bluetooth board attached the music is twice as loud. Do you think the amp will now reach 50 watt rms with 26 Volt? Also my laptop power supply give me 80 watts and It don't shut off if I played max volume with only sub channel on.


        Thanks

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        • #34
          Filters for my w3-881sjf

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post
            Thanks Mike for the info, the number on the 2 Grey poly boxes is - - > 683J100

            Do you know which frequency the sub channel is playing( 5hz to 150hz? Original version!)

            I don't have a multi-meter but maybe I can buy one because it costs the same as expensive filtering. I already have buyed filters to set my w3-881sjf on 110hz.

            The last one, if I played music with bluetooth board attached the music is twice as loud. Do you think the amp will now reach 50 watt rms with 26 Volt? Also my laptop power supply give me 80 watts and It don't shut off if I played max volume with only sub channel on.


            Thanks


            The grey poly caps are 0.068 uf (corrected) each. If the SMD resistors are truly 47 K ohms, that would put the amp's LP F3 at 50 Hz. If the resistors are a different value than the silk screen on the board, say 10 K ohms, the LP filter F3 would 243 Hz. For another member, the silk screen said 47K but the board was populated with 4.7K.. That raised the F3 to 1,070 Hz, useless. Why I asked about a multi-meter - Harbor Freight $6 - not super precision but useful for this as well as tracing voltage, wiring, etc for DIY.

            Which BT board? Twice as loud as what - your phone's headphone output wired to the amp's inputs? The BT module likely has a higher output.

            Here's a short (3 page) paper I wrote explaining signal level vis-a-vis amp gain and power output

            https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B04...ew?usp=sharing
            Last edited by Millstonemike; 08-30-2017, 08:26 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post



              The grey poly caps are 0.068 uf (corrected) each. If the SMD resistors are truly 47 K ohms, that would put the amp's LP F3 at 50 Hz. If the resistors are a different value than the silk screen on the board, say 10 K ohms, the LP filter F3 would 243 Hz. For another member, the silk screen said 47K but the board was populated with 4.7K.. That raised the F3 to 1,070 Hz, useless. Why I asked about a multi-meter - Harbor Freight $6 - not super precision but useful for this as well as tracing voltage, wiring, etc for DIY.

              Which BT board? Twice as loud as what - your phone's headphone output wired to the amp's inputs? The BT module likely has a higher output.

              Here's a short (3 page) paper I wrote explaining signal level vis-a-vis amp gain and power output

              https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B04...ew?usp=sharing
              Maybe a option is that you make the board for me. I will pay you and send costs

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post

                Maybe a option is that you make the board for me. I will pay you and send costs
                I could do that. No charge for me, only pay for shipping and ~$2 bucks for caps. If I don't have the right cap values in stock, you may have to a wait a few weeks until they come in. Send me a PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post

                  I could do that. No charge for me, only pay for shipping and ~$2 bucks for caps. If I don't have the right cap values in stock, you may have to a wait a few weeks until they come in. Send me a PM.
                  Thanks Mike, I have a w6-1139sif subwoofer and 2 w3-881sjf. I have tuned the w3-881sjf to 120hz with a f3 of I thinks around 107hz. The w6-1139sif I have tuned to 38hz with a f3 of 33hz

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                  • #39
                    70 W rms, clean watts, into the sub. L and R will get ~35W rms into 8 ohms

                    Is that 35 watt rms in every speaker or 17.5 watt each.

                    Also I don't have the multi-meter yet but I think this week

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post
                      70 W rms, clean watts, into the sub. L and R will get ~35W rms into 8 ohms

                      Is that 35 watt rms in every speaker or 17.5 watt each.

                      Also I don't have the multi-meter yet but I think this week
                      35 W per channel - 35 W into each 8 ohm driver

                      BTW: That amp has 4.68x gain built into the sub channel via the sub channel's band pass filter (just after the master volume control in the schematic). That helps with a typical subs lower efficiency. It's doesn't increase maximum power out to the sub, just a better balance between the sub and L-R volume control settings by having the extra boost in the sub channel.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post
                        35 W per channel - 35 W into each 8 ohm driver

                        BTW: That amp has 4.68x gain built into the sub channel via the sub channel's band pass filter (just after the master volume control in the schematic). That helps with a typical subs lower efficiency. It's doesn't increase maximum power out to the sub, just a better balance between the sub and L-R volume control settings by having the extra boost in the sub channel.
                        My English is not the best but if I reed this it seem to me that you say that if I have a subwoofer with lower efficiency than my full range speakers I can turn the volume up off my sub channel to compensate bass.

                        Is this not just the same as turning volume up.

                        The reason I asking this stuff is because I try to balance the bass of my subchannel with the full range

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                        • #42
                          [QUOTE=Scarface1;n1343364]Maybe I'm hoping to much on good results. Today I have place the speaker in another room and it sound a lot better, I also place the port a bit further from the inside wall of the enclosure.

                          How is it that you are able to move the port around, are you making new panels for the box?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post

                            My English is not the best but if I reed this it seem to me that you say that if I have a subwoofer with lower efficiency than my full range speakers I can turn the volume up off my sub channel to compensate bass.

                            Is this not just the same as turning volume up.

                            The reason I asking this stuff is because I try to balance the bass of my subchannel with the full range
                            There are three volume controls on the amp: (1) Master volume - controls volume for both L-R & Sub; (2) Sub volume - only controls sub; and (3) L-R volume - only controls L & R channel).

                            So, you use the sub and L-R volume control to set the balance between the sub and the L-R speakers. Once the balance is set, you shouldn't need to use the sub or L-R volume anymore. Use the master volume to control the loudness of the system.

                            The extra gain in the sub channel helps the lower efficiency sub. it may allow the L-R and Sub volume controls to be set at similar rotation. but that all depends on the specific speakers used.

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