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The Super Bees - Garage two way build

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  • KEtheredge87
    started a topic The Super Bees - Garage two way build

    The Super Bees - Garage two way build

    Hi Guys,

    This build is my first original speaker design, and is intended for me to really learn and apply some crossover knowledge. I've got a head start since the boxes were pre-assembled door prizes with blank baffles from InDIYana 2017. I decided to use the HiVi L6-4R woofer and Dayton ND25FW-4 waveguide soft dome tweeter after doing some crossover simulations in PCD and seeing that I could achieve what I think will be good results from relatively modest XO parts in 2nd order LR filters. This project has also been a convenient way to start learning Autodesk Fusion 360 CAD software, which I'm finding is more full featured than google's sketchup.

    I've been working on these here and there, and wasn't totally sure when to start this thread, so I figured now is as good a time as any. I'll try to post meaningful pictures over the next few entries to catch everyone up. At a high level, here's where we're at:

    1) Naming them the Super Bees after the Dodge muscle car of the 70's. I like the name, and the super bee logo... and these are garage speakers, so naming them after cars only made sense!
    1a) This leaves me open to re-use an Ultimax-15 driver for a garage sub, name it the Rumble Bee, and then have the whole project called the Scat Pack!

    2) Bassbox predicts Fb=51.9 Hz / F3 = 56.5 Hz with a 4.75" long x 1.728" ID round port with internal and external flares.

    3) DATS measurement shows Fb is actually 45 Hz, so I'm clearly off in BassBox somewhere.

    4) Woofer LP target is 2nd order LR @ 2200 Hz, Tweeter HP target is 2nd order LR @ 2500 Hz

    My next steps are to take frequency response measurements of the woofer and tweeter in the cabinet with my Omnimic and follow Jeff Bagby's approach to combining nearfield and farfield responses to get quasi-anechoic frequency responses for crossover design. I currently have a 10 conductor - 18AWG wire divided up between the woofer and tweeter (3 wires + and - for woofer, 2 wires + and - for tweeter) so I can hook up only the drivers I want at any given moment.

    OK, enough of my jabbering for a while. Here's some pictures of where we are, and a rendering of what I hope it looks like when I'm done!

    Click image for larger version

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by skatz View Post
    So what was the problem with the Rustoleum? Drying time?
    Hey man, sorry - got busy with actual work stuff. I am honestly not sure what went wrong with the Rustoleum. I don't think drying time should have been the issue, as I left the yellow and black stripe on the cabinet for more than one week in my air conditioned house before trying the clear coat. I didnt' smell any more off-gassing or curing enamel smells, so I thought I was good to apply the clear.

    The only thing I can think is that I messed it up by wet sanding after the yellow and black stripe layers to give the smoothest final surface for the clear coat to lay on. I sort of doubt that though... one cabinet took the vinyl decals fine without any lift-off and ruining of the clear coat, and I prepared both of them the same way.

    Ultimately I want to increase the finish quality of my builds by moving to HVLP in the future, so I can only hope that better products will equal better quality (assuming I develop enough skill with the spray gun!) At this point, the speakers are installed and serving the purpose well, so I've called this project complete. Brain space is now devoted to future projects!

    Leave a comment:


  • skatz
    replied
    So what was the problem with the Rustoleum? Drying time?

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thtry View Post
    Congrats again on your win. That bright, yellow finish was simply incredible. Really pops in the pictures.

    Bill
    Thanks Bill! I'm glad everyone liked the finish It was a pain working with that rustoleum clear. No more rustoleum for me. Krylon if I must go rattle can!

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thtry
    replied
    Congrats again on your win. That bright, yellow finish was simply incredible. Really pops in the pictures.

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • BOBinGA
    replied
    Congratulations on your placing in the MWAF. Well deserved.

    Leave a comment:


  • Navy Guy
    replied
    Great job Keith. The finish was top notch.

    Leave a comment:


  • xmax
    replied
    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post

    I left the XO exactly as I had it back in April at InDIYana 2018. I only used about 3dB of baffle step on these in the final XO, knowing I would eventually put them close to the wall above my workbench.
    These might be perfect for my paint guys shop, he wants something he can put into little "cubbies" up on a shelf above his desk...

    Leave a comment:


  • scottvalentin
    replied
    They look great and congrats on your placing!! Well done!

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by xmax View Post

    Did you end up addressing the baffle step or did these place well as is?
    I left the XO exactly as I had it back in April at InDIYana 2018. I only used about 3dB of baffle step on these in the final XO, knowing I would eventually put them close to the wall above my workbench.

    Leave a comment:


  • xmax
    replied
    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    Final update on the SuperBees: I took them to Midwest Audio Fest 2018 and won 3rd place in the Under $200 category! Not too shabby for my first real design! Thanks to everyone who's helped me hammer these out along the way!

    I have a final writeup of sorts, but TechTalk has a file size limit, so I can't attach it here. I guess I'll just hold on to it myself and see when PE puts the project into the Project Gallery.

    ...On to the next adventure!
    Did you end up addressing the baffle step or did these place well as is?

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Hey Everyone,

    Final update on the SuperBees: I took them to Midwest Audio Fest 2018 and won 3rd place in the Under $200 category! Not too shabby for my first real design! Thanks to everyone who's helped me hammer these out along the way!

    I have a final writeup of sorts, but TechTalk has a file size limit, so I can't attach it here. I guess I'll just hold on to it myself and see when PE puts the project into the Project Gallery.

    ...On to the next adventure!

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Hi Bob, Thanks for your comments That 300-600 Hz area has been one of the areas that I was a bit confused about during the early stages of this XO design (circa post #41). My first attempts tried to model a nominally flat response by attenuating everything above 300/400 Hz down to match, but this caused a sizeable inductor bump isssue below 300 Hz as well. I thought the XO electric phase and impedance response could have been better too, so I came up with the version I have now. I figured I would spend less effort fighting that 300-600 Hz area and aim for good response above there. My ability to accurately measure this region for XO work is also suspect. The most recent OmniMic FR plots show a lot of room interactions since I was measuring at 30" on-axis with the tweeter. I wasn't interested in doing blended nearfield / farfield for each cabinet. That's a lot of microphone movement! At the very least I thought it sounded good, so whether or not the OmniMic showed it being well behaved from a technical standpoint is almost secondary. We'll see how it sounds outside of my basement soon enough!

    I like your ideas regarding swapping the XO to determine if the issue is driver based vs. XO based. That's an easy thing to do! Thanks for suggesting it!

    Leave a comment:


  • BOBinGA
    replied
    That 6 db rise in response from 300 to 600 hz looks like classic baffle step.* When you put these against the wall in your garage, that should flatten out and it looks like your Super Bees will be one of the flattest response "garage speakers" around.* Good job. *

    I'm not sure the 1 db difference between the two is anything more than driver variances.* I don't know that I would change anything to compensate.* But to see if it is a XO component, swap the XOs between the speakers and if the difference moves to the other speaker then it is indeed a component and not a driver variation.

    -Bob

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  • dynamo
    replied

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