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Thinking in solitude

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  • Thinking in solitude

    In one of the brief, but enjoyable moments I believe we all have daily, I was pondering low distortion drivers and the Yamaha NS 1000 popped in my head.

    It then occured to me that the mid-dome and tweeter were BOTH Be. For $1000/pr for the speaker.

    So if a commercial company can afford to make extremely linear and low distortion Be drivers, even if they are not "pure Be", why don't we have these alternitaves yet?

    These are not ancient speakers....Maybe 10-15 years ago? So its not an iflation thing.

    Further, I would take a deposited Be dome of it costs orders of magnitudes less than a pure alternitave and only gives up 10% performance. You get the advantage of a very high 1st break up and a stiffer piston regardless. I would imagine a little less eff since it would require a substrate making it a bit heavier.....Just a thought...perhaps dream.
    .

  • #2
    Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
    In one of the brief, but enjoyable moments I believe we all have daily, I was pondering low distortion drivers and the Yamaha NS 1000 popped in my head.

    It then occured to me that the mid-dome and tweeter were BOTH Be. For $1000/pr for the speaker.

    So if a commercial company can afford to make extremely linear and low distortion Be drivers, even if they are not "pure Be", why don't we have these alternitaves yet?

    These are not ancient speakers....Maybe 10-15 years ago? So its not an iflation thing.

    Further, I would take a deposited Be dome of it costs orders of magnitudes less than a pure alternitave and only gives up 10% performance. You get the advantage of a very high 1st break up and a stiffer piston regardless. I would imagine a little less eff since it would require a substrate making it a bit heavier.....Just a thought...perhaps dream.
    Isn't Beryllium a toxic metal?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by View Post

      Isn't Beryllium a toxic metal?
      Yes, in various forms. This does not seem to be a deturrant, however most domes are screened.

      Perhaps a liability some do not want to carry?

      The point being is it seems there is no good reason for Be drivers to be excessivly expensive, and the proof is the use of both a tweeter in a midrange in a commercially available offering for a G-Nuck/pr.

      Hoping to gain more insight on why.
      .

      Comment


      • #4
        https://www.stereophile.com/standlou...ker/index.html

        Those came out in 1976...

        Environmental regulations are a lot stricter now and Be drivers are machine in a clean room by one manufacturer I read about. There are enough very very good tweeters with more cost effective materials that I don't think there are the volume of sales demand to make this high volume low cost product at this point.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by fdieck View Post
          https://www.stereophile.com/standlou...ker/index.html

          Those came out in 1976...

          Environmental regulations are a lot stricter now and Be drivers are machine in a clean room by one manufacturer I read about. There are enough very very good tweeters with more cost effective materials that I don't think there are the volume of sales demand to make this high volume low cost product at this point.
          I thought they were still made through the early 2000's. I may be wrong.

          There are VERY good tweeters, but Be offers more. You cannot beat material sciwnce and physics. Goid point on the regs. I wonder if they are still vapor depositing it anywhere?
          .

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          • #6
            Materion is still making beryllium compression driver diaphragms: https://materion.com/products/beryll...-bex-diaphragm
            Francis

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            • #7
              I don't see anything to be gained by making Beryllium midranges. Tweeters, sure, but that's only because of the frequency range involved. I really, really like the T-labs Be dome. But then all of their tweeters are exceptionally good.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong

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              • #8
                I believe this Paradigm uses a Be mid Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post
                  I don't see anything to be gained by making Beryllium midranges. Tweeters, sure, but that's only because of the frequency range involved. I really, really like the T-labs Be dome. But then all of their tweeters are exceptionally good.
                  Hi Pete,
                  I do not know for sure, but reading up it seems the advantages of a Be mid would he pushing the brekup so high no HD, or IM distortions would be in the working range.
                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mzisserson View Post

                    Hi Pete,
                    I do not know for sure, but reading up it seems the advantages of a Be mid would he pushing the brekup so high no HD, or IM distortions would be in the working range.
                    Accuton mids are incredible and they control breakup with those little dots on the dome. Their 2" ceramic cell mid is phenomenal. How high do you want a 6"-7" mid to play anyway? And if you do want 3000-4000 for the high XO point then even aluminum ceramic is capable of >20KHz breakup like the Cell mid.
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post

                      Accuton mids are incredible and they control breakup with those little dots on the dome. Their 2" ceramic cell mid is phenomenal. How high do you want a 6"-7" mid to play anyway? And if you do want 3000-4000 for the high XO point then even aluminum ceramic is capable of >20KHz breakup like the Cell mid.
                      Talking about 2-3" dome mids.
                      .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mzisserson View Post

                        Talking about 2-3" dome mids.
                        Check out the Accuton C51 cell 2" dome. Not Be but still amazing.
                        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong

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                        • #13
                          There were rumours of TLab releasing some mid domes, but I guess something has stopped that happening. Which is a shame, as there arent many alternatives apart from the accuton and a few cheap metal mids

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                          • #14
                            I read the T-Lab mid-domes were supposed to be graphite. Whether that's possible or not is unclear as I could not uncover anything in the web archives.

                            Now what I want to know is why are all the top ribbons using aluminum? A beryllium dome weighs around 0.30 to 0.46 grams. However a aluminum ribbon weighs only 0.01 to 0.018 grams. I know beryllium is expensive but if a beryllium ribbon will use around 1/30th of the material why are we not seeing them?

                            Most give fame to Yamaha's NS-1000 and its successors for Beryllium. But in Japan Pioneer was king, and Yamaha's competition. Pioneer's "Exclusive" line never made it outside of the island nation so its best speakers are unheard of. The Pioneer S-955 III had a 3" beryllium dome and a beryllium ribbon tweeter named the PT-R7III

                            http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-S-955III.html
                            http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-PT-R7III.html
                            http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EX.../s-9500-e.html
                            Last edited by Krillin; 09-19-2017, 11:25 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Krillin View Post
                              I read the T-Lab mid-domes were supposed to be graphite. Whether that's possible or not is unclear as I could not uncover anything in the web archives.

                              Now what I want to know is why are all the top ribbons using aluminum? A beryllium dome weighs around 0.30 to 0.46 grams. However a aluminum ribbon weighs only 0.01 to 0.018 grams. I know beryllium is expensive but if a beryllium ribbon will use around 1/30th of the material why are we not seeing them?

                              Most give fame to Yamaha's NS-1000 and its successors for Beryllium. But in Japan Pioneer was king, and Yamaha's competition. Pioneer's "Exclusive" line never made it outside of the island nation so its best speakers are unheard of. The Pioneer S-955 III had a 3" beryllium dome and a beryllium ribbon tweeter named the PT-R7III

                              http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-S-955III.html
                              http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-PT-R7III.html
                              http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EX.../s-9500-e.html
                              Aluminum ribbons move a mass of air more than the ribbons themselves already. The RAALs are phenomenal tweeters. (let them flame wars begin).
                              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong

                              Comment

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