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Why is it you guys are so great? No, seriously?

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  • #16
    I agree 90%. Yes, I only have 40+ posts, but under another name(that I cannot get changed over, and since 2005) I have more than 1300 posts. My experiences is that its not unusual to to see piffing matches over measurement details that simply cannot be heard in real music. I know this because I have some systems which were panned by these details(which are correct from an acoustical or electrical engineering standpoint) but which simply cannot be heard in the listening situation that I use.

    And so that diddy about too much knowledge...

    When that happenes I go to Linkwitz or somebody else to hear whether the item, thought accurate and correct, is actually hearable. After all there re lots of discussions about bad amplifiers, but no one has ever beaten the Richard Clarke test and taken the money, in proving that one amp is better than another as long as the amps are not driven to clipping and the speakers are the same and the power is the same. You simply cannot hear a real difference consistently.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post

      Did somebody say ribs?

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1346708[/ATTACH]

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1346709[/ATTACH]

      Mmmmm ribs

      I saw Mark mentioned my name - thank you, my friend. I am as much student as teacher.
      Now you're speaking my language!
      .

      Comment


      • #18
        I think the people here tend to have a lot more experience actually building loudspeakers and other audio projects. The attitude of someone who is actively building, testing, documenting and sharing is generally superior to people who are just playing mind games with themselves. It's very easy to get fixated on a design philosophy or some tiny aspect of sound reproduction, people here tend to be a bit more realistic (see DiyAudio).

        The contributions of the PE staff can't be overstated, as well. Their moderation tends to be extremely good.

        For me, if I want to build something new I consult this website, troels, audioexcite, gainphile, musicanddesign, linkwitzlab, bagby's whitepapers and carmody's website.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by malboro2 View Post
          . . . but no one has ever beaten the Richard Clarke test and taken the money, in proving that one amp is better than another as long as the amps are not driven to clipping and the speakers are the same and the power is the same. You simply cannot hear a real difference consistently.
          ​Are you familiar with the Carver (amplifier) challenge? It may make you rethink your postulate.
          http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by View Post

            ​Are you familiar with the Carver (amplifier) challenge? It may make you rethink your postulate.
            http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge
            Love that piece.

            In this hobby, its a matter of keeping an open mind, but no so open your brain falls out. For all the snake oil, I have seen many miss out because they found some random tidbit from some supposed guru that provides the confirmation bias needed.

            I, personally, have gone down some wacky roads, but am always willing to keep an open mind. It has lead me to some really deep technical understanding, and for as many dead ends as there are, the few wins are well worth it.

            That said, the amplifier/speaker relationship is more involved that people give it credit for. Usually the guise is something about low output Z verses the generally high Z of a loudapeaker and so on. However Toole, Newell, and Collims have all touched upon, and have shown its not so simple.
            .

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mzisserson View Post

              Love that piece.

              In this hobby, its a matter of keeping an open mind, but no so open your brain falls out. For all the snake oil, I have seen many miss out because they found some random tidbit from some supposed guru that provides the confirmation bias needed.

              I, personally, have gone down some wacky roads, but am always willing to keep an open mind. It has lead me to some really deep technical understanding, and for as many dead ends as there are, the few wins are well worth it.

              That said, the amplifier/speaker relationship is more involved that people give it credit for. Usually the guise is something about low output Z verses the generally high Z of a loudapeaker and so on. However Toole, Newell, and Collims have all touched upon, and have shown its not so simple.
              ​I hear you!
              Amplifiers can sound and measure differently. However, the ability to discern minute differences may be substantially difficult and very load dependent.

              Comment


              • #22
                I keep coming back to the forum because the info is top notch, the people are legitimately helpful, and everyone actually seems to be enjoying themselves in the process! I've been to two DIY events so far, and I'm finally starting to design my own XO networks (with some CONSIDERABLE help from the aforementioned awesome people and info!).

                Also... the ribs. The ribs keep me coming back over and over. Now I'm hungry. Good work fellas
                Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                The Super Bees - Garage 2 way

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                • #23
                  http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/

                  Richard Clark.

                  Not ribs. I'm a vegan. If it has a mother or was made by a mother or is a mother, I don't eat it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                    .... I have seen many miss out because they found some random tidbit from some supposed guru that provides the confirmation bias needed....
                    As have I, Those looking for quick affirmation rather than doing objective analysis.

                    Originally posted by View Post
                    ... However, the ability to discern minute differences may be substantially difficult and very load dependent.
                    Agreed
                    "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                    "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There are a few trolls here that just like to stir the pot and ruin perfectly good threads for the rest of us. There are some of us here who are very passionate about this hobby but unfortunately we let our pride get in the way from time to time. But overall most all of us here just want to learn more and help others learn what we already have discovered. This forum is 10 million times better than the car/racing forums I lurk at. Some of those guys have serious small carb issues... just saying ;)
                      Craig

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        And JR, can you bring some of those smoked ribs to Iowa?????
                        Craig

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ill see what I can do.
                          Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by killa View Post

                            ??? I really don't see anything that seems like you did.

                            It was my first time being censored.
                            I saw my post said ********-- which personally, I didn't think was a swear word?
                            My dental implant teacher started off by telling us that he was an *******, in that he refused to be diplomatic, politically correct, or "respectful" of gurus that taught things that weren't right (like All-on-four, or ripping out all your teeth to slap 4 badly angled implants and a denture).

                            I guess that I got sort of desensitized to that being a bad word, since I see myself as an a*s***** too.
                            I had a 97 yo patient with a mouth full of cavities. His prior dentist lied to him about everything being right, and afterwards expected me to send him back (after I did all the hard stuff).
                            The prior guy was a very highly respected prosthedontist in Berkeley, and I told him off.

                            So when needed, I'm an ***h*l*....I forgot that was a bad word.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
                              There are a few trolls here that just like to stir the pot and ruin perfectly good threads for the rest of us. There are some of us here who are very passionate about this hobby but unfortunately we let our pride get in the way from time to time. But overall most all of us here just want to learn more and help others learn what we already have discovered. This forum is 10 million times better than the car/racing forums I lurk at. Some of those guys have serious small carb issues... just saying ;)

                              I really don't see too much pride here.
                              There's everyone from noobs like me (how do I install a port?) to gurus like Wolf, Bagby, Carmody, JR, etc.
                              I was really touched by the thread where you walked some guy away from a possibly lethal neighbor (especially after one of the members got killed over stuff)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by malboro2 View Post
                                I agree 90%. Yes, I only have 40+ posts, but under another name(that I cannot get changed over, and since 2005) I have more than 1300 posts. My experiences is that its not unusual to to see piffing matches over measurement details that simply cannot be heard in real music. I know this because I have some systems which were panned by these details(which are correct from an acoustical or electrical engineering standpoint) but which simply cannot be heard in the listening situation that I use.

                                And so that diddy about too much knowledge...

                                When that happenes I go to Linkwitz or somebody else to hear whether the item, thought accurate and correct, is actually hearable. After all there re lots of discussions about bad amplifiers, but no one has ever beaten the Richard Clarke test and taken the money, in proving that one amp is better than another as long as the amps are not driven to clipping and the speakers are the same and the power is the same. You simply cannot hear a real difference consistently.

                                I'm sure that you might think that these are pretty big arguments, but it's pretty tame compared to some dental threads.
                                Some of the flame wars and personal attacks can get extremely heated there...
                                You'd think that education and maturity would be correlative.

                                Comment

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