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  • #76
    Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
    ... People that are willing to do what Stephen Paddock did (if he indeed did it) aren't going to follow laws anyhow, and you can murder people with plenty of other items (pressure cookers and trucks filled with manure for example).
    Unabomber as an example. Fortunalety, the devastation was mostly material rather than lives in that case.

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    • #77
      I don't believe anyone in this 6 page thread has said anything about taking peoples guns away. It will never happen, but the death lobby wants you to believe if you change
      ​laws that they are they are coming for your guns. Yes there is no way to stop a madman from killing if that's his mission but hindering his ability to obtain the very efficient
      ​means in which he did it is worth considering even if it may inconvenience responsible gun owners. To do nothing, but wait till the next time it happens is irresponsible.
      The govt. is not coming for your guns period, I am going to exit this debate and I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my views. I love this country as much as anyone else
      ​in this thread.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post

        ​Sydney is there really a problem with wolfdog hybrids where you live? I did not realize they were an issue. I am on my 3rd wolf hybrid and consider them less
        ​dangerous than pitbulls.
        I'm not exactly sure what I saw in my yard, technically I'm told there are not wolves in WV, but there are animals ( Coywolf? ) with 1/4 wolf DNA, 2/3 coyote DNA and the rest is from dog.It was Gray and Big.
        I've also seen a bear twice in my yard this year. ( 8000-10000
        Ursus americanus in WV )
        "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
        "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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        • #79
          Caming from the UK, I don't understand why pro gun guys would not want tight regulations on who can get their hands on machine guns. Shouldn't they be setting an example?
          Personally don't think anyone shd be able to buy a machine gun period.. It just seems crazy to me

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          • #80
            Originally posted by bill poster View Post
            Caming from the UK, I don't understand why pro gun guys would not want tight regulations on who can get their hands on machine guns. Shouldn't they be setting an example?
            Personally don't think anyone shd be able to buy a machine gun period.. It just seems crazy to me
            National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA)
            Technically those were not machine guns
            Consider that the 2nd Amendment is only 27 words, so debate on interpretation has been going on for a long time.
            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post
              I don't believe anyone in this 6 page thread has said anything about taking peoples guns away. It will never happen, but the death lobby wants you to believe if you change
              Follow the money. Guns are a 30 BILLION dollar a year industry, so if sales are curtailed by even 10% that's 3 billion. The gun lobby and NRA plus 52% of Congress are underwritten by the gun industry. It's not too hard to connect the dots.
              I have three guns, a rifle, a shotgun and a handgun. If I had to register them it would be no more inconvenient than registering my car. That's something we've had to do for over a hundred years, and yet the government still hasn't come to take our cars away.
              I served, in Southeast Asia. I was a sniper with 37 confirmed kills. I'm an expert with everything from an M1911 to an M60. The last thing I'd have in my home is an assault rifle, even a semi--auto, let alone one with full auto capability. You don't need them to hunt, you don't need them for personal defense. That means unless you wear the uniform or a badge you don't need them.
              www.billfitzmaurice.com
              www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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              • #82
                Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                The last thing I'd have in my home is an assault rifle, even a semi--auto, let alone one with full auto capability. You don't need them to hunt, you don't need them for personal defense. That means unless you wear the uniform or a badge you don't need them.
                If you're looking for an answer on how we prevent something like this from happening again, Bill's statement is spot on IMHO. Granted, the shooter still could have killed numerous people with a rifle, but he would have had to aim and the fatality count would have been considerably less. It's trading one evil for another but it's a lesser evil.

                Other than eliminating the semi-automatic guns, something has to be done with the Hotel Security. How the hell does someone get 23 guns up to a room unnoticed?!

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                  The last thing I'd have in my home is an assault rifle, even a semi--auto, let alone one with full auto capability. You don't need them to hunt, you don't need them for personal defense. That means unless you wear the uniform or a badge you don't need them.
                  ​Why's that Bill? You afraid you'll go on a rampage with it? I know PLENTY of people with "assault" rifles and I've never known a single one of them to cause any harm with any of them to anything other than a target. I can make the same (lame) statement about a LOT of things people own. No one needs more than one pair of speakers either, maybe we should pass a law, think of the trees and energy you'd save
                  "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                  "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                    Why's that Bill? You afraid you'll go on a rampage with it?
                    Because anything I need to take down I can with one shot.
                    I know PLENTY of people with "assault" rifles and I've never known a single one of them to cause any harm with any of them to anything other than a target.
                    Let's hope you never become a target. That's all people are to the deranged.
                    www.billfitzmaurice.com
                    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post

                      ​Universal background checks to start 30% of gun sales there is no background check at all. Limit high capacity magazines. Make bumpstocks illegal. Maybe when one
                      ​individual purchases 32 guns in one year (like the shooter did) it should raise a red flag to someone. Semi auto were not legal till the lobbyists got it reversed in 2004-5.
                      ​ There are plenty of proposals, remember Gabby Gifford (she may have some insight about this issue) and her husband have been trying to get reforms enacted but
                      ​guess who fights every attempt. Oh and cars are not made for the purpose of killing.
                      Thank you for adding the detail.

                      Bump stocks - Ban them. I have never had an interest in them. All of the folks I know in the 2A community see no use for them. Should the ATF review? Absolutely.

                      Background checks, criminals and anyone wanting to commit a crime will not follow the law. Laws are not deterrents to criminals. Penalties for crimes are. In 2010 there were 72K folks who failed background checks (1.2% of total background checks that year). Less than 45 were prosecuted. There was a law already on the books to address failed checks. There are not enough federal prosecutors, investigators or jails to even being to make a dent. How would this be enforced. The uncovering of this crime would most likely occur after the violent crime has been committed.

                      High capacity magazines. First we have to address the tens of millions (possibly hundreds) that are already in circulation. What do we do with those? Confiscate people's property - go door to door? Make possession of them a crime and turn hundreds of millions of gun owners into over night felons?

                      Multiple gun purchases? Should it raise a red flag? Maybe. But what is the number we land on? 5-10-15-32..2?

                      Semi auto were not legal till the lobbyists got it reversed in 2004-5 - not sure I understand this one - please explain.

                      My firearms are not made for the purpose of killing either. They are made sport and self defense. If the end result of the latter is the taking of someones life, it was because they were attempting to take mine or my family's. As hard as it is to believe, there are firearms made for the purposes other than sport or self defense. There are hundreds of millions that don't kill. Their purpose is solely dictated by their user. Cars are not made to kill, but they are effective if dictated by the user.

                      All of these discussions have been had before. At the end of the day, none of the above would have stopped any of the mass shooters in the last 30 years because in the end, criminals don't follow laws or feel impeded by them. What we have left are a bunch of laws that cannot be enforced and law abiding citizens made into over night felons. Where to we go from here?

                      Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                      Granted, the shooter still could have killed numerous people with a rifle, but he would have had to aim and the fatality count would have been considerably less. It's trading one evil for another but it's a lesser evil.
                      If he would have used a car/truck it would have considerably more.

                      Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                      Follow the money. Guns are a 30 BILLION dollar a year industry, so if sales are curtailed by even 10% that's 3 billion. The gun lobby and NRA plus 52% of Congress are underwritten by the gun industry. It's not too hard to connect the dots.
                      I have three guns, a rifle, a shotgun and a handgun. If I had to register them it would be no more inconvenient than registering my car. That's something we've had to do for over a hundred years, and yet the government still hasn't come to take our cars away.

                      I served, in Southeast Asia. I was a sniper with 37 confirmed kills. I'm an expert with everything from an M1911 to an M60. The last thing I'd have in my home is an assault rifle, even a semi--auto, let alone one with full auto capability. You don't need them to hunt, you don't need them for personal defense. That means unless you wear the uniform or a badge you don't need them.
                      First, thank you for your service. Your words are pretty strong and definite. I presume they come from a perspective that many of us do not have. But, no one here should tell another what they do or do not need or should have. This is where respect for others begins to erode and where the open discussion ends.

                      You may not need a semi-auto rifle to hunt or for personal defense. These are your opinions. That is where it ends. Wearing a uniform or badge is not the only ticket to entry. The 2nd Amendment is. Donít like itÖthen change it. I donít think you have ever had to address the exploding hog population in the south. Tell that to the ranchers who lose billions of dollars each year due to the pig over-population. Tell that to the property owner that needs to dispatch a coyote pack to protect their cattle. Maybe you have not had to use a semi-automatic rifle for home or personal defense. Tell that to the 15 year old Houston boy who successfully defended himself and his sister with one. Tell that to the Koreans during the LA riots in the early 90s. I could go on.

                      If I or my family becomes a target of the deranged, I want the absolute best means and tool to protect them and myself. If a semi-automatic rifle is the first thing I can grab, It becomes abundantly clear it is exactly what I NEED.

                      "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

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                      • #86
                        "Semi auto were not legal till the lobbyists got it reversed in 2004-5". What? I have a half dozen semi-autos purchased legally. I inherited a 1947 Belgium Browning Sweet Sixteen and a 1964 A5 both purchased legally, in the US.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by dwigle View Post
                          "Semi auto were not legal till the lobbyists got it reversed in 2004-5". What? I have a half dozen semi-autos purchased legally. I inherited a 1947 Belgium Browning Sweet Sixteen and a 1964 A5 both purchased legally, in the US.
                          I think he is referring to the Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) of 1994 that expired in 2004. If so, the statement is misguided and inaccurate. Lobbyist did not get it reversed. It lapsed. There was hardly a ban persay as it really did not impact semi-auto rifles like folks think it did.
                          "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

                          The Madeleine
                          The Roxster
                          Swopes 5.0
                          Acoustic Panels
                          Living Room Make Over

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                          • #88
                            one would be a fool to think a law could be written that a criminal would abide by ,criminals dont obey laws ( duh ) , so what is the point of a new law or more laws . the laws we have on several issues are not enforced and largely out of fear of offending people .the saying "if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns !' is more than a saying ,its a fact . criminals dont get their legal or illegal guns legally , they dont go through background checks ,they are not going to limit the magazine size , murder has been illegal at least since the Ten Commandments , so the idea of new laws or more strict ( Chicago ) laws is foolish ! this all comes back to fact that guns dont kill people, people kill people . people are your problem , they must fear the punishment for their actions and they dont .if you are going to write a law it should be a law against people not guns and should have severe punishment such as the death penalty .
                            donc

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                            • #89
                              For the people who keep using assault weapon and semi-auto interchangeably, please look it up. A huge percentage of ordinary rifles are semi-auto, most semi-autos sold are not assault rifles. Even the term assault rifle is pretty erroneous. If you want to lobby for gun legislation you have to know what the hell you're talking about first.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by dld View Post
                                For the people who keep using assault weapon and semi-auto interchangeably, please look it up. A huge percentage of ordinary rifles are semi-auto, most semi-autos sold are not assault rifles. Even the term assault rifle is pretty erroneous. If you want to lobby for gun legislation you have to know what the hell you're talking about first.
                                Agreed and thank you.

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