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Full Range Driver as Low Crossover Point Tweeter

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  • Full Range Driver as Low Crossover Point Tweeter

    There are a number of full range drivers which have very good on axis high frequency performance, and for many of the smaller ones pretty good off axis high frequency performance.

    I have focused on the Peerless/Tymphany line and there are a number to choose from. I a way it makes sense that these driver are better bang for the buck as they cater to much larger small music device market and can achieve economies of scale the true hi fi drivers cannot achieve.

    I know the Vagrant Monitor uses a 21/2 full range as a tweeter with a crossover point around 1000 hz. See https://www.parts-express.com/projec...agrant-monitor

    My questions are any thoughts in using a full range with 700 hz or so crossover point, maybe with an 8 inch woofer, or smaller sub like the w5 -1038SMF.

    Some that have caught my eye are:

    Maybe this bad boy with an 700hz crossover point and an 8" woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...-ohm--264-1606

    Or this with W5-1038 or even Dayton 61/2 classic with a 800 hz or so crossover: https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...-ohm--264-1154

    or maybe this one: https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...-ohm--264-1154

    And maybe using one of the full range driver referenced above as a tweeter with this driver to avoid its nasty midrange: https://www.parts-express.com/tecton...-ohm--297-2156

    Any thoughts are appreciated.

  • #2
    Absolutely! I used the TC6 with a Dayton DS135 woofer crossed at 1.5k. Worked really well. Dan Nuebrecker with his Obsidian design used a Dayton RS180 (I think) with the TC7. Some call these FAST designs or Full range Subwoofer assisted designs or some such thing. The caveats are that yes, off-axis will suffer and the crossover parts will necessarily be larger. You will also be looking at lower overall sensitivity as well.
    https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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    • #3
      It's definitely doable as Chuck suggested, but what I find is that you end up with a $10-$20 tweeter whose structure is largely designed for playing into the upper bass region. And these systems inevitably sound like this. I personally think a robust legitimate tweeter crossed to an 8" or even a 10" driver sounds better. The only way I'd go with the suggested format is if I needed a ton of bass (i.e. 12" or 15" woofer) and didn't want to spring for the added cost of a 3-way.

      That's just my opinion of the sound quality of this format. It still has some advantages and can sound pretty good.

      Dan
      _____________________________
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      • #4
        Originally posted by DanP View Post
        It's definitely doable as Chuck suggested, but what I find is that you end up with a $10-$20 tweeter whose structure is largely designed for playing into the upper bass region. And these systems inevitably sound like this. I personally think a robust legitimate tweeter crossed to an 8" or even a 10" driver sounds better. The only way I'd go with the suggested format is if I needed a ton of bass (i.e. 12" or 15" woofer) and didn't want to spring for the added cost of a 3-way.
        The problem is that cheap woofers tend to have some ugly response issues higher in frequency. The M8N is half the price of the RS225 and almost as good, but it starts running into problems at one-and-a-bit kilohertz.

        You could put a giant horn on a compression driver dome tweeter (like the Peanuts at MWAF) to hit the required crossover point, or you could just use a driver like the Tymphany TC7 that works pretty well. Not perfect, but for $11, not bad either.

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        • #5
          Did this with the M3N and the RS125-4, called Hybrid Vigor, and the xover came in about 900Hz. Some find they need a tweeter for the top-end air, but the imaging is spectacular.

          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

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          • #6
            I built a speaker with an RS-225 and a full-range Fostex driver. This post might help.

            http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-...f-monitor.html

            Mike
            "We're speaker geeks, not speaker nerds. Nerds make money!" Marty H
            Bismarck, North Dakota
            My Current System: Jolida SJ502A, Squeezebox Touch, and Carmody Sunflowers
            My Garage System:Marantz 2238B and Nano-Neos

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            • #7
              I've done this before also and really liked the results. There are some distinct advantages doing a 2 way this way. Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

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              • #8
                I used a TC9FD as the mid/tweeter in a hybrid OB design with a ND105-4 in a ported enclosure for bass. Crossover point ended up around 1100 Hz. I really like how this speaker sounds and don't find I need a real tweeter at all. The very narrow open baffle really makes this design shine.
                Craig

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                • #9
                  Some of the smaller full-range drivers have rather low sensitivity it seems, or is that just me?

                  Like, what smaller full-range drivers would mate well with a 6-1/2" woofer and provide a lower crossover point w/o compromising system sensitivity?

                  Maybe w/ baffle step it is even more of an issue?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by philthien View Post
                    Some of the smaller full-range drivers have rather low sensitivity it seems, or is that just me? Like, what smaller full-range drivers would mate well with a 6-1/2" woofer and provide a lower crossover point w/o compromising system sensitivity? Maybe w/ baffle step it is even more of an issue?
                    Correct they have poor sensitivity, but with baffle step the difference is ok. The woofer will lose 6db while the full ranger will not. This is a good reason to target the 500hz XO range. Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

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                    • #11
                      Here's the average of 6 TC6s. I think I measured these at 3 or 4 inches so there's minimal / no baffle response.

                      The dip in Tectonic Elements TEBM65C20F is worth working around and using a standard tweeter imo.

                      I used 4 of the TB W2-1803s in the Titan OB project. Using multiples to match sensitivity allows you to use something like a 12 inch or 15 inch woofer. If you cave to something smaller a fun project would be the DCS165-4 in 10 liters with one of the Peerless 2 inchers.
                      John H

                      Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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                      • #12
                        This is all pretty good advice but what guys are making the point for three ways. Pick a 4 inch driver made for midrange and get the sensitivity a small fullrange doesn’t have. 400 to 800 crossover for low pass is nice since you really don’t need to worry about the physical offset offset and can go second order for HP And LP filter for woofer and mid. There any number of inexpensive tweeter that will sound good crossed over at 3 to 5 kHz which a decent four inch mid will let you do for its upper end. You can probably get away with a first order high pass for the mid with a paralell restor on the mid to swamp the of resonance peak.

                        Who was it that said make every as simple as possible but not simpler?

                        Fred

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jhollander View Post
                          Here's the average of 6 TC6s. I think I measured these at 3 or 4 inches so there's minimal / no baffle response.
                          Which version of the TC6? It does look like it could be a bit more smooth, but I've seen worse.

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                          • #14
                            Tc6fc00-04
                            John H

                            Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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