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Design Team Build #3 - The Juggernauts (also know as The Better Late Than Never)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Then your xover points are what, 220 and 1.5kHz, correct? Do they sum in-phase and xover at -6dB from reference? LR if so. Or out 90 degrees phase offset and -3dB from reference? BW if so.

    I know you're trying to explain how the shape of each knee is in your acoustic profile for the 3-way architecture, but there really are only 2 xover points in a 3-way. Sometimes people get hung up on what the slopes and knees appear to acoustically target in a simulation (I did the same thing a long while back), but it's really the accumulative nature of the entire blend that equates what is actually going on. Sure transitioning of the slope can be stated, and curve shape can also be, but that is usually easily seen in a simulation. However, you are not stating what the xover points actually are, nor the acoustic summation alignment.

    This of course has no bearing on how they sound vs what was on paper above. At InDIYana, I felt the mid and tweeter were really nice together and fairly seamless. Your explanation of the hole you had explains why I felt the woofer wasn't playing all that well with the midrange- even though the bass was really nice. I chalked/guessed it up to woofer off-axis response and the blend, but your offsets really could screw things up for sure. Well played out and fixed now, I'm sure.

    Best regards,
    Wolf
    Ben,

    I get what you are saying about only having two crossover points. Based on summation these are would be an LR alignment at roughly 220 Hz and 1.7 Khz. Naturally, the flat summation is of primary importance.

    However, I do think that the actual roll-off of the drivers is important to describe as well because it tells you how much a driver is used in a given frequency range and can have an impact on off-axis behavior. I’m not ever really targeting a specific slope when designing but I always have distortion and actual slope of the driver in mind, since that will dictate the performance of the individual driver. Regardless of how the drivers sum, a second order slope at 2000 is significantly different than a fourth order slope at 2000. I know you know this as well, but I’m just stating that to clarify why I posted the information I did.

    The woofer offset issue I fixed before InDIYana. The issue was much more apparent than when I was there, more like a driver being out of phase. At InDIYana, I was specifically referring to off-axis behavior or power response in that region since the offset issue had been fixed. While they were summing flat, the power response had a 3dB dip. Based on the offsets I had and the frequency I needed to cross to avoid other issues with the side firing woofer, this couldn’t be completely avoided but I made a minor tweak in this section to reduce the power response dip slightly. It seems to have helped, but I’ll wait for feedback this weekend.
    -Kerry

    www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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    • #47
      Kerry,

      Any pictures with the drivers installed?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by dkalsi View Post
        Kerry, Any pictures with the drivers installed?
        Just one low quality cellphone pic from late last night. I’ll get some good quality ones after MWAF.
        -Kerry

        www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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        • #49
          Stunning!

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          • #50
            Still need to break out the good camera and get some better lighting on them but here are the finished Juggernauts. I really couldn’t be happier with these. The Morel tweeter is truly one of a kind and these are a 100% full range speaker that would never need a subwoofer. Everything is amazingly clean on these and they bring out every last detail of any recording.
            -Kerry

            www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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            • #51
              A build to last a lifetime ... exquisite.

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              • #52
                Gorgeous!!!

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                • #53
                  Will you be posting the crossover?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ontariomaximus View Post
                    Will you be posting the crossover?
                    Yes, I need to draw up the schematic still. I used PCD so it doesn’t translate well to most people. I also need to take final measurements.
                    -Kerry

                    www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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                    • #55
                      Those were some of my favorites at MWAF, the bass from the RSS and PR setup was excellent.
                      Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                      Wogg Music

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                      • #56
                        wow, some great craftsmanship here! thanks for the contribution! would love to see the crossover specs as well - maybe one day I can build a set of these! Keep up the great work!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by wogg View Post
                          Those were some of my favorites at MWAF, the bass from the RSS and PR setup was excellent.
                          Thanks!
                          -Kerry

                          www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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                          • #58
                            Finally got some time to throw together the crossover schematic and box dimensions. I used a 1/2" thick Baltic birch shelf brace in between the woofer and passive radiator, woofer on the bottom. The mid and tweeter are in their own separate chamber that is 12.5" H x 8" deep again made from 1/2" Baltic birch. All external panels end up being 1.25" thick. Ignore the what ratings on the resistors. I used 4 of the 10 Ohm Mundorf green resistors that are 12 W each in parallel to make the 2.5 Ohm resistor to get me to 48 W power handling. All the others were just standard 10 W ratings.

                            I didn't put measurements for the wood on the sides because it's not necessary to have that if you don't want it. I did it for styling but you could do the whole cabinet in 1.25" thick MDF (with the exception of the brace and internal mid chamber) and the performance would be identical. I used a 1/2" chamfer down the front of the cabinet, which you'll probably want to keep. This could be increased to a 3/4" or even 1" if you wanted.


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                            Last edited by Navy Guy; 08-16-2018, 11:34 AM.
                            -Kerry

                            www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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                            • #59
                              Realized I forgot the height of the enclosure. I’ll update tomorrow but it’s 44” tall straight from to floor
                              -Kerry

                              www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

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                              • #60
                                I really enjoyed these and am a bit surprised at how shallow the vifa mid slope is, LR2s?
                                John H

                                Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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