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  • DIY subwoofer issues??

    Hello all!
    I built two sub enclosures about 7 cubes. Each with a 15Ē stereo integrity d4. I have an Onkyo 809 a mic 2200 as a filter and a newly acquired inuke nu4- 6000. I am getting some signal to the enclosure, although it seems lethargic. When I ran audessey it set my def tech bp6 at 40 hz. It recognized the subwoofer and that was about it. I can leave the room and hear the walls rattle but if there was an LFE it is un impressive. These drivers have about 25 mm of xmax. I should be able to see a lot of movement in them when the bass hits. These molded well in winisd and others that have done similar builds talk about how impressed they were. So here I am wandering why I am not.

    I know it is hard to troubleshoot out of sight however I am hoping that with a little dialogue I might get some resolution.

    Thanks for looking and any input.

  • #2
    Is that the modern HTR 809 or the older integrated amp with no line outputs? If its the older integrated how are you getting a line level signal to the mic2200? Your problem is not enough signal level to the iNuke and the solution is to crank the gains on the preamp.
    Paul O

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    • #3
      Agree with Paul.
      I've seen many internet setup guides that recommend setting the subwoofer level in your receiver to as low as it goes. This is wrong! And causes a lot if these probles. Pro gear and home gear work at different signal levels and sometimes it takes adjustment of the receiver gain to make it work zero is great But up as high as it will go. Luke +10 to make sure the amount is getting enough signal to work with and then back it down as allow able. Using +3 on the sub level I've never had a problem with pro Amps.

      I'd probably also take the mic2200 out of the loop at least for testing. I'm not familiar with that one but I glanced at it and saw "tube" and "audiophile" in the description. I usually associate that with subs.
      - Ryan

      CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
      CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
      CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
      CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Paul O View Post
        Is that the modern HTR 809 or the older integrated amp with no line outputs? If its the older integrated how are you getting a line level signal to the mic2200? Your problem is not enough signal level to the iNuke and the solution is to crank the gains on the preamp.
        This one does have the preouts. 2 sub outs.
        The mic 2200 has to adjustments one says db level and the other says db output. Between them there is a button that says eq in/ out. I am unsure about that.

        So in the receiver I should adjust the output in the sub level as high as it can go and then make adjustments on the mic 2200?

        The mic 2200 was what was recommended. I have the bandwidth set at around 17-60 hz. I am not sure about the previous mentioned knobs or button.

        I have the inuke bridged and the gain knob on it is about a 1/3 of total

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        • #5
          Originally posted by audiodreamer View Post
          The mic 2200 was what was recommended.
          By Who? You don't need any extra processing between the HTR sub out and the amp but you may need something to boost the signal level, so disable everything you have set on that unit for the time being and let the signal pass straight through. So on the front panel make sure it is set to line level not mic level, EQ is not engaged, Low cut is not engaged, Phase invert is not engaged.


          Originally posted by audiodreamer View Post
          I have the inuke bridged and the gain knob on it is about a 1/3 of total
          No good. Set the gains all the way up. And did you make special bridged speakon cables wired for 1+/2+ at the amplifier end? You need these to get the bridged output power. With all this done turn up the output gain on the preamp as much as needed to get the sub output levels you want.
          Paul O

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          • #6
            I was following advice of a person on another forum. He had done several builds and told me this was the least expensive option. I needed it to cut the frequency from going to low.

            Yes on the speaking cable.

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=audiodreamer;n1353449 I needed it to cut the frequency from going to low. [/QUOTE]

              Do you listen to a lot of vinyl?

              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kornbread View Post

                Do you listen to a lot of vinyl?
                Not unless I got to a friends. He has a lot more invested in his system and a dedicated 2 channel room. It makes a difference.
                I wanted these mainly for movies, and hoping they would fill in for anything the mains wouldnít for music.
                I do know that probably a pipe organ maybe the only thing that gets that low. (I think)

                Turning the gain all the way up seems to have been the issue.

                Would I be correct in saying that the way some audio is mixed, that sometimes the bass seems tight and controlled and sometimes it seems muddied?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just wondering if you listened to vinyl a lot since you wanted to keep the frequency from going too low. Rumble from a turntable can be an issue for subs.

                  I've got a pair of SI18's in an infinite baffle arrangement so I'm familiar with the brand and what they're capable of, just not sure why someone would want to cut the bottom nuts off. From experience, they like power, you seem to have that covered.

                  With the displacement two SI 15' subs have, there should be no problem filling in the bottom end of just about any speaker. The only problem with mine is they will not cross very high to meet a smaller speaker.

                  When cd's first came out, the thing the recording engineers did back then was ride the treble so cd would sound so much better than tape or vinyl.

                  With truly full range main speakers I only use the subs when watching movies (for tactile as much as bass). When the subs are used when only listening to music the bass seems to lag behind and muddy the rest of the music. Not sure how much of that is my fault though because I've yet to take any time to match them (crossover point/eq) with the mains.
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
                    Just wondering if you listened to vinyl a lot since you wanted to keep the frequency from going too low. Rumble from a turntable can be an issue for subs.

                    I've got a pair of SI18's in an infinite baffle arrangement so I'm familiar with the brand and what they're capable of, just not sure why someone would want to cut the bottom nuts off. From experience, they like power, you seem to have that covered.

                    With the displacement two SI 15' subs have, there should be no problem filling in the bottom end of just about any speaker. The only problem with mine is they will not cross very high to meet a smaller speaker.

                    When cd's first came out, the thing the recording engineers did back then was ride the treble so cd would sound so much better than tape or vinyl.

                    With truly full range main speakers I only use the subs when watching movies (for tactile as much as bass). When the subs are used when only listening to music the bass seems to lag behind and muddy the rest of the music. Not sure how much of that is my fault though because I've yet to take any time to match them (crossover point/eq) with the mains.
                    Did you manually adjust your crossovers or let your receiver do it?

                    If I have the gain all the way up on amp what prevents having too many watts at the drivers?

                    This is really all Greek to me and I donít want to fry a driver. I donít really believe that my mains will go that low even the specs say to 35hz. Now before I got the amp figured out the receiver was going to set them at 40. Now I have them set to crossover at the recommended thx of 80. As far as any holes, I do not know. I have the Dayton umm-6 calibration mic. I however am not real competent at how to work the software, to see in room response.

                    Now that I went back and looked at my modeling, the mic2200 was for a high pass filter set at 15hz. Without it when the frequency would get below say 13 hz it would cause the cone to go past its xmax.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by audiodreamer View Post

                      Did you manually adjust your crossovers or let your receiver do it?

                      If I have the gain all the way up on amp what prevents having too many watts at the drivers?

                      This is really all Greek to me and I don’t want to fry a driver. I don’t really believe that my mains will go that low even the specs say to 35hz. Now before I got the amp figured out the receiver was going to set them at 40. Now I have them set to crossover at the recommended thx of 80. As far as any holes, I do not know. I have the Dayton umm-6 calibration mic. I however am not real competent at how to work the software, to see in room response.

                      Now that I went back and looked at my modeling, the mic2200 was for a high pass filter set at 15hz. Without it when the frequency would get below say 13 hz it would cause the cone to go past its xmax.
                      First time around was old school. 4 Dayton IB's mounted in a cube, itself mounted in the wall with the subs using the adjoining room as their 'box'. Eq'd it using a radioshack spl meter at the listening position while a test cd played one frequency at a time while I jotted the readings in a notebook. From the readings I'd make manual adjustments to the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro (makes a good digital parametric eq) then remeasure. It literally took over a month to get it right. Less than 3db variation from 16 to 110hz.

                      Nowdays, I just plug the Feedback Destroyer into the laptop and measure with REW. REW and the Behringer talk to each other and what took over a month back then, now happens automatically in just a few minutes.

                      Have to set the crossover points manually. My AV processor is an older Marantz sr8400 so it doesn't have all that fancy auto calibration/crossover stuff. An old REW measurement shows them dropping like a rock around 100hz.

                      What are you listening to that has significant contend @13hz?

                      That's the selling point of a well executed IB, they play very low. You have to be pushing waaaaay more power to those SI subs than I am cause I've never even come close to using all the travel the things have. I need an inuke6000!

                      Once you figure out how to measure everything with your mic/software/laptop, check that against what the AVR's telling you. My guess is the muddy bass may clear up when the subs and mains are playing nice together.














                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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                      • #12
                        What are you listening to that has significant contend @13hz?


                        Most likely nothing! Honestly I donít know if the mic 2200 is needed or not. What i donít want to happen is taking a chance of destroying all of my efforts.

                        How does your destroyer hook up? What model do you have? Does it only work with your subs or all channels?

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                        • #13
                          It's a dsp1124p. Only used to eq the subs.

                          It just hooks between the receiver sub out and behringer amp. It's old and outdated, but it still works.
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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