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A good 2 way design using only a capacitor for the crossover is?

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  • A good 2 way design using only a capacitor for the crossover is?

    Hi Guys,

    A confession, I still subscribe to The Absolute Sound, despite disagreeing with most of what it represents. Anyway, the current issue very favorably evaluates the Watkins Generation Four speaker which is a compact two way using a Peerless 6.5 inch woofer, a SEAS H-1212 tweeter and a single capacitor as a 3K crossover. The manufacturer claims that because of the matching of the drivers, no tweeter padding is required, no more complex crossover is needed, and that therefore sonic problems caused by more complex crossovers are avoided.
    I'm a person who would like the very simplest crossover possible in my first two way build. So, I'm wondering if there are any good DIY designs using just a single capacitor for the crossover?
    The Watkins cost $2K per pair and the reviewer gushes that he would, " happily recommend it even at a price tag of $7k". I don't trust most of what I read in TAS, I do trust input from forum members here and would greatly appreciate getting info on any good 2 way design that you are aware of that uses only a single capacitor as a crossover.

    Thanks!
    ​Jay

  • #2
    I like minimal crossovers also. The idea is to find a woofer that rolls off smoothly in the upper mid-range and has a gentle downward slope if you need baffle step correction. This narrows your choice of woofers considerably.

    Then you can bring in the tweeter to fill in where the woofer leaves off. Ideally, the woofer is about the same sensitivity as the tweeter. If not, then a padding resistor for the tweeter or multiple woofers are needed.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm doing a build with the Peerless 264-1636 woofer and 264-1472 tweeter. This pairing would work with just 1 cap.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dropcarve View Post
        I'm doing a build with the Peerless 264-1636 woofer and 264-1472 tweeter. This pairing would work with just 1 cap.
        Plus a padding resistor(s), no?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post
          Plus a padding resistor(s), no?
          looks like both drivers spec at about 87 dB sensitivity, so perhaps no padding resistor?

          or maybe MTM / TMM design to boost the LF?

          Comment


          • #6
            May be fine without resistors. The tweets are not that loud. I'm using second order on the tweet, cap and coil. I don't like the idea of "just a cap"

            Comment


            • #7
              Seas a26 does it. People have substituted other less (and more) exspensive tweeters.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ceiol View Post

                looks like both drivers spec at about 87 dB sensitivity, so perhaps no padding resistor?

                or maybe MTM / TMM design to boost the LF?
                With the low frequencies filtered out, the tweet will be a little louder in the high frequencies. May not be enough to be an issue. The drivers would be good for an MTM design.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drjay View Post
                  Hi Guys,

                  A confession, I still subscribe to The Absolute Sound, despite disagreeing with most of what it represents. Anyway, the current issue very favorably evaluates the Watkins Generation Four speaker which is a compact two way using a Peerless 6.5 inch woofer, a SEAS H-1212 tweeter and a single capacitor as a 3K crossover. The manufacturer claims that because of the matching of the drivers, no tweeter padding is required, no more complex crossover is needed, and that therefore sonic problems caused by more complex crossovers are avoided.
                  I'm a person who would like the very simplest crossover possible in my first two way build. So, I'm wondering if there are any good DIY designs using just a single capacitor for the crossover?
                  The Watkins cost $2K per pair and the reviewer gushes that he would, " happily recommend it even at a price tag of $7k". I don't trust most of what I read in TAS, I do trust input from forum members here and would greatly appreciate getting info on any good 2 way design that you are aware of that uses only a single capacitor as a crossover.

                  Thanks!
                  ​Jay
                  Do you know which Peerless woofer? The Seas tweeter does look like a cap would roll it off nicely, but any of the 6.5" Peerless woofers that I've seen will need some x-over parts to match up. I looked at the add for the speaker, but didn't see Peerless mentioned. There was a comment that the woofer was modified in some way, as was the tweeter. That would be one way to stop a DIY clone of the design. Call me skeptical, but I'd trust Seas, or Peerless to design the driver right, more than I would some speaker company. Personally, I like lots of parts in a x-over!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dropcarve View Post
                    May be fine without resistors. The tweets are not that loud. I'm using second order on the tweet, cap and coil. I don't like the idea of "just a cap"
                    Justing checking ...

                    While the sensitivity ratings are close, the tweet is 4 ohms. And both drivers' sensitivity ratings are spec.'d at 1 W/1m, not at 2.83V/1m. So I would think the tweet gets twice the power for any given power signal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post
                      Justing checking ...

                      While the sensitivity ratings are close, the tweet is 4 ohms. And both drivers' sensitivity ratings are spec.'d at 1 W/1m, not at 2.83V/1m. So I would think the tweet gets twice the power for any given power signal.
                      The 4ohm version is 90db @ 2.83v/1m, the 8ohm is 86db

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Drjay View Post
                        I'm a person who would like the very simplest crossover possible in my first two way build. So, I'm wondering if there are any good DIY designs using just a single capacitor for the crossover?
                        Why not eliminate the capacitor? The most simple passive crossover is none at all. Go with a virtual crossover, DSP and active loudspeakers. If you only listen to one set at a time you can reuse the electronics in other designs.
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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dropcarve View Post
                          The 4ohm version is 90db @ 2.83v/1m, the 8ohm is 86db
                          Is that what you meant by the tweeter being colse enough, a little louder up high? Asking because I don't have the experience to make that call.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You're the veteran here sir, far more experience than I. You are correct, with either the 8ohm version and certainly the 4ohm version of that tweeter, some padding would be needed for a smooth response. However, it would work with just a cap, even if that's not technically correct.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              With a simple first order design, I think it is important to to have a woofer or mid-bass that sounds good by itself. Otherwise the tweeter probably won't help much. If your woofer or mid bass gets the bass and mid range right, then you can cross in a tweeter to fill in the high end. Your choice of woofer will dictate your crossover frequency, it may be higher than you expect.

                              I have used the Visiton WS-17 woofers with a first order contour filter in series to flatten out the rising response. They sound nice in an open baffle or possibly in a large closed box. The FaitalPro 5FE120 mid bass driver looks like a good candidate to run with a simple first order crossover on the tweeter only. It is pretty efficient and rolls off cleanly around 6k with a flat response through the mid range.

                              A padding resistor before the capacitor can provide a method to voice the speakers to your room or your personal taste, it may be necessary.



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