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  • Help needed with tweeter choice for 2 way

    Hi Gentlemen,

    Well I went a bit crazy an hour ago and bought some Dayton DA115-8 drivers with the intention of using them in a bookshelf sized 2 way. I couldn't resist them with the great reviews they have and $10 each price. Because of the input on my post asking about a capacitor only crossover, I've decided to man up and build a 2 way with a crossover (hopefully a fairly simple one!) So I needed some tweeters. Having no idea what would work well with the DA115-8s and unable to resist the $10 sale price each I bought some Dayton PTmini 6 planars, some Dayton ND25 TA-4s, some Dayton DC 25T-4s, some Dayton ND20 FA6s, and last but not least some Buyout T 25 paper cone 8 ohm tweeters.
    I have never bought a tweeter before and now I have a bunch of them! So, I'm hoping to get advice as to which would work best with the DA115s and what the simplest, decent and affordable crossover would be.
    Help is needed and will be greatly appreciated,

    ​Jay

  • #2
    Originally posted by Drjay View Post
    Hi Gentlemen,

    Well I went a bit crazy an hour ago and bought some Dayton DA115-8 drivers with the intention of using them in a bookshelf sized 2 way. I couldn't resist them with the great reviews they have and $10 each price. Because of the input on my post asking about a capacitor only crossover, I've decided to man up and build a 2 way with a crossover (hopefully a fairly simple one!) So I needed some tweeters. Having no idea what would work well with the DA115-8s and unable to resist the $10 sale price each I bought some Dayton PTmini 6 planars, some Dayton ND25 TA-4s, some Dayton DC 25T-4s, some Dayton ND20 FA6s, and last but not least some Buyout T 25 paper cone 8 ohm tweeters.
    I have never bought a tweeter before and now I have a bunch of them! So, I'm hoping to get advice as to which would work best with the DA115s and what the simplest, decent and affordable crossover would be.
    Help is needed and will be greatly appreciated,

    ​Jay
    There's a well regarded MTM speaker on these pages called the "Duelatti" which uses this driver and the VIFA BC25TG15 tweeter; the crossover's not that simple, but not complex either.

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/bl...=1511336925004

    However, that doesn't help you as you already have a range of tweeters, which I haven't heard.

    Builders on PETT seem to like the ND20s.

    Sorry, this isn't terribly helpful but shows that the DA115 will make a nice speaker!

    Good luck

    Geoff

    Comment


    • #3
      Out of all the tweeters listed I like the ND25TA. This could be an all simulation derived x-o as the measurements are on PE's website. Are you planning to measure?
      John H

      Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the input so far. I am not set up to measure anything and not knowledgeable enough to know what to do with measurements if I had them. I am hoping that someone has actually built a speaker using the DA115 and one of the tweeters I've ordered, but if not maybe I'll buy a couple of Vifa BC25TG15 and build the Duelatti although its crossover is rather scary.
        Maybe some other folks will chime in with more advice and or info.
        Thanks again, Geoff and John

        Comment


        • #5
          I did a design some time ago using the da115 and nd20 named the Domo. Mark Miller worked the crossover. Still a favorite build and my niece loves them.

          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...a-built-thread
          https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

          Comment


          • #6
            Too bad you didn't pick up a pair of the ND25FW-4 when they were also on sale. I use
            them in an MTM and think they sound great. They are also used in the C-notes and people have really liked that design.
            Craig

            Comment


            • #7
              I had to guess at the offset in xsim. I looked at ported but these reach xmax pretty quickly. Multiple DA115s or sealed might be better. I don't think any of these tweeters are going to be a simple x-o. Could notch the DA115 baffle step and run without a tweeter to save a few parts but a tweeter will sound better in my opinion.
              John H

              Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

              Comment


              • #8
                Great choice of a small woofer, this one appears to have an extended upper range with a relatively smooth roll off. I think you will find this one to be easy to work with and a great candidate for a first order crossover. You might actually find that the woofer sounds pretty good run full range with no tweeter at all. This is a good start.

                Are you planning one woofer or two per speaker? Where will the speaker be located? Against a wall or floor, or on a stand away from the wall? Will the speaker be at ear level? The speaker location affects crossover tuning.

                If it were me, I would build a test box first and get the bass and mid range sorted out. A 4 liter ported box with a 1" x 3" port should work well. Start with no crossover or tweeter and see how it sounds. I expect it will sound pretty good overall, but a bit soft in the highs. Let the speaker play for at least a few hours to break in.

                I would then suggest a 0.8 mH inductor in series with the woofer as a good starting point. You could probably start with an iron core coil and upgrade to a heavier gauge air core coil later if you want. Make sure it still sounds good, you should hear the highs become noticeably reduced and the bass will sound relatively louder. You could probably use any value from 0.5 to 1.0 mH, depending on how much baffle step is needed. This is where speaker location really matters.

                I would pick the DC25T-8 tweeter, it has a fairly smooth response. I also think it will look great with the silver and black woofer, if that matters. I would suggest a 15 ohm 5 or 10 watt resistor in series with a 1.0 uF non-polarized capacitor for the tweeter. This should put the crossover between 3 and 4 KHz, should be no problem for a 4" woofer. The tweeter should probably be opposite phase with the woofer, but try it both ways.

                You could also try a different cap for more or less upper mid range. Anything from 0.7 to 2.0 uF should be OK. You could also vary the resistor for more or less highs. Anything from 10 to 20 ohms should be OK. I would probably buy a few different caps and resistors to try out. Once you settle on a value, a poly cap might be a nice upgrade. I use a terminal strip to connect the crossover components and draw out my diagram before connecting anything.

                Make sure to measure the resistance where your amp connects to check your wiring before you power up, you do not want to short circuit your amp. If you have a spare receiver or amp, you might want use that for testing.

                I think you are off to a good start. Just for fun, you could also remove the inductor from the woofer and see how it sounds. You will probably get much more mid range with no baffle step compensation at all. Depending on your room placement and personal preference, this combo could actually work OK with just the resistor and cap on the tweeter. Let your ears be the judge.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drjay View Post
                  Hi Gentlemen,

                  Well I went a bit crazy an hour ago and bought some Dayton DA115-8 drivers with the intention of using them in a bookshelf sized 2 way. I couldn't resist them with the great reviews they have and $10 each price. Because of the input on my post asking about a capacitor only crossover, I've decided to man up and build a 2 way with a crossover (hopefully a fairly simple one!) So I needed some tweeters. Having no idea what would work well with the DA115-8s and unable to resist the $10 sale price each I bought some Dayton PTmini 6 planars, some Dayton ND25 TA-4s, some Dayton DC 25T-4s, some Dayton ND20 FA6s, and last but not least some Buyout T 25 paper cone 8 ohm tweeters.
                  I have never bought a tweeter before and now I have a bunch of them! So, I'm hoping to get advice as to which would work best with the DA115s and what the simplest, decent and affordable crossover would be.
                  Help is needed and will be greatly appreciated,

                  ​Jay
                  Try this filter without a tweeter, and see what you think. You need three parts wired in parallel with each other. Basically these just EQ the response a little. The top end may be a little hot, but can be adjusted by towing the speakers in or out slightly.

                  Filter parts. .5mH 12uf 8 ohms (Plus or minus 10% of these values should be good.)
                  This depresses the 1k to 3k range to hopefully improve the tonal balance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you Gents. The suggestions from John, Billet and RPB are great and cover the range from sophisticated to simple. I do have a small selection of resistors inductors and caps on hand so when the parts come In I'll build some test boxes based on the WINISD pro recommendations and start experimenting. I will also order the tweets that work best in the Duelettas so that I can build a proven 2 woof speaker with a proven crossover for comparison.
                    As usual, members of this forum come through in the help department with flying colors!

                    Jay

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rpb View Post
                      Try this filter without a tweeter, and see what you think. You need three parts wired in parallel with each other. Basically these just EQ the response a little. The top end may be a little hot, but can be adjusted by towing the speakers in or out slightly.

                      Filter parts. .5mH 12uf 8 ohms (Plus or minus 10% of these values should be good.)
                      This depresses the 1k to 3k range to hopefully improve the tonal balance.
                      I must say, that is a pretty excellent suggestion.

                      I entered this combo into WinPCD, and the response is ruler flat from 1100 Hz to 7200 Hz with a 5 db rise at the low end for baffle step compensation and a rising high end to help compensate for the decreased off axis response of the 4" driver. The acoustic phase response is also near zero degrees from 300 Hz to 7200 Hz.

                      I just may have to order a couple of these woofers now... Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm working on a design I'm going to try with just one capacitor...The SEAS 10" paper woofer along with a standard dome tweeter with a waveguide.....It looks like it just might match up...

                        http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=...=44&Itemid=461

                        http://www.zaphaudio.com/hornconversion.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you need a tweeter that can be crossed over low, something like the robust SEAS 27TDFC with its very low resonant frequency can be crossed over at 1500hz or even a little below depending on slope, might be an important factor in a two way

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Guys,

                            An update. Using generous help from Isaeagle with the crossover layout, I was able to replicate his Domo design which uses the DA115 and the ND20 FA drivers. All I can say is color me impressed. I haven't used any lining or polyfill yet in the cabinets and the sound is already very nice. Nicely balanced, detailed and harmonically accurate. I had tried the same drivers with a cookbook crossover using web "design programs" while waiting for the parts I neeeded for the Domos to arrive, and the sound was sort of "OK" but not a fraction as good as the Domo design.
                            Having had success with my first two crossover builds, I will be tackling John H"s suggested build in post 7 above. For now though I can say that if you have an interest in a really good sounding affordable 2 way I think you will like the Domo design a lot.

                            Thanks to All,

                            ​Jay

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you Jay. I'm glad you like them! Credit for the crossover belongs to Mark Miller as he did the original sim on them. Yep, these were originally designed and built before ANY measurements were taken. Using Jeff's spreadsheets. Later when I could take full data, they met the sim so closely, it was difficult to tell one from the other.
                              https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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