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  • Help needed with Tang Band W4 1052 SD filter

    Hi Gentlemen,

    A while back I built a pair of single driver Mini Me clones using the TB 1052 driver. The original speaker did not use any filter and I was told it needed one to be at its best, so I decided to try to use the filter used in the similar Whetstones. That filter is pretty complicated, but Chris Roemer suggested a highly similar but much simpler filter consisting of a 1.2mH coil in parallel with a 9 ohm resistor and 1 uf cap. I have tried that and while it helps the bass a lot, it takes too much away from the upper midrange and top end.
    Yesterday I decided to work on them some more and when I bypassed Chris's filter the upper mids and top came back but were too hot and the bass was too weak.
    ​I'm hoping someone can recommend a filter that helps the bottom and tames the top a bit. The online BSC calculator suggests that for my 8 L, 9" wide baffle cabinet a .7 mH inductor and 2 ohm resistor will give me a 4 db bass boost, but I don't know how to tame the hot high end between 2K and 10K and not lose the sparkle up at the very top. I will try to attach the link to the Whetstones so that the filter used and the frequency response of the TB 1052 driver can be checked out by anyone who is interested in exactly what I'm trying to deal with. https://sites.google.com/site/taterw...dio/whetstones
    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Jay

  • #2
    We need to clear up one thing just for clarity. A bsc circuit is NOT a bass boost. Passive components do not add gain. The circuit compensates for a loss in bass. Thus what it is doing is reducing or leveling off the driver output above the baffle step freq.

    Try using various resistor values to what best suits your taste. For a wide range driver, speaker placement is also more critical. If they are on a shelf or placed near a wall, use less bsc (smaller inductor). If the highs are not reduce toe in or use a smaller resistor.
    https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the feedback. I actually did know that the function of the BSC filter was to reduce the higher (in this case the above 505 Hz) frequencies to thus give the bass frequencies a relative increase. My wording was not the best. What is most helpful is your comment about the resistor. if I'm reading you correctly, the lower the value of the resistor, the less the highs are reduced. What I still wonder though, does adding a capacitor prevent the filter from dropping the output above 10Khz where it does not need to be reduced, and what value of cap would be good to try as a starting point?

      ​Jay

      Comment


      • #4
        Click image for larger version

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        I did this sim a long time ago, and it's meant for use with the 3CR cabs I built. 8 parts, but not expensive ones. You can see how the brown transfer function alters the response, leaving the top-end alone and flattening the peaked region.

        Last I checked, the Neo driver was actually cheaper than the ferrite version as well.

        Here is the layout of the components, and it's not really that hard:

        Click image for larger version

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        Unfortunately, one notch was not enough to tame this driver, but the driver sounds quite good. When Rory did his Whetstones, it was an exercise for him since it was his first foray into xover design. He also purposely did not use any components in parallel with the driver. I think it's a bit more complex than this above, IIRC, but does work well.

        If you want to tweak the circuit, I recommend just messing with the resistors in the notches and starting there. These change the amplitude of the response within the confines of the notches, and are likely what you would change for tonal balance.

        Have fun!
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

        Comment


        • #5
          Wolf did you trace the FRD from the TB factory graph?
          John H

          Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

          Comment


          • #6
            That as a traced/adapted file, AFAIK. I have had good luck with TB plots, despite others' views on them.

            It's been about 10 years since I did that one.

            Later,
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #7
              Wolf,
              Am I thinking correctly that If I run wire to the components in your diagram just as the the red lines show, soldering them where the red lines cross, that that would be my filter? If so that would be neat, since as you say, the components are affordable. While I don't understand how the filter works, if that is all there is to building it I'll give it a shot. However, if there is something that would get me close that is even simpler, a la Chris's 3 part filter that would be great.
              Thanks for the input!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Drjay View Post
                Hi Gentlemen,

                A while back I built a pair of single driver Mini Me clones using the TB 1052 driver. The original speaker did not use any filter and I was told it needed one to be at its best, so I decided to try to use the filter used in the similar Whetstones. That filter is pretty complicated, but Chris Roemer suggested a highly similar but much simpler filter consisting of a 1.2mH coil in parallel with a 9 ohm resistor and 1 uf cap. I have tried that and while it helps the bass a lot, it takes too much away from the upper midrange and top end.
                Yesterday I decided to work on them some more and when I bypassed Chris's filter the upper mids and top came back but were too hot and the bass was too weak.
                ​I'm hoping someone can recommend a filter that helps the bottom and tames the top a bit. The online BSC calculator suggests that for my 8 L, 9" wide baffle cabinet a .7 mH inductor and 2 ohm resistor will give me a 4 db bass boost, but I don't know how to tame the hot high end between 2K and 10K and not lose the sparkle up at the very top. I will try to attach the link to the Whetstones so that the filter used and the frequency response of the TB 1052 driver can be checked out by anyone who is interested in exactly what I'm trying to deal with. https://sites.google.com/site/taterw...dio/whetstones
                Thanks for any suggestions,
                Jay
                If you change the 9 ohm resistor to a smaller value, the effect of the filter is in the same frequency band, but at a reduced level. So changing the 9 ohm to about 5 or 6 ohms might be closer to what you want. If the x-over is external, you can add a 10 or 16 ohm resistor in parallel for a quick listen.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's your driver unfiltered (grey curve), with the 1.2mH / 9ohm / 1uF filter (in orange), and YOUR 0.70mH AND a FOUR OHM resistor (no cap) in blue. I altered your 2ohm resistor to 4ohms to give you a curve midway between what you've got, and w/MY filter bypassed.

                  Please note: while you feel the highs are too shouty w/NO filter (that range peaking at 5k is running +9-10dB hotter than the (nominal) bottom-end output, you feel they're too subdued w/the filter in place - but . . . the bulk of the highs are STILL about +2dB higher than the bass section.
                  Also note that the FR curve HERE is NOT modeled for any baffle-step, so the blue curve is not really FLAT between 200Hz and 1000Hz except on a huge baffle (or in-wall). MY filter was not designed (by me) to make your driver flat - it was just derived to model the FR of the Whetstones (which you maybe liked?).

                  While I'm SURE Ben's suggested filter would offer the flattest response, you SEEM to want the treble elevated quite a bit (don't know if you're as old as I am, but the top octave is mostly lost to ME). My filter (in orange) yielded a couple to a few dB of BSC, but left the highs run maybe +4dB hotter than "normal", yet you seem to want them hotter still.

                  The blue curve is what I'd try next. It'll be pretty simple/cheap and put you in-between what you've heard so far.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Drjay View Post
                    Wolf,
                    Am I thinking correctly that If I run wire to the components in your diagram just as the the red lines show, soldering them where the red lines cross, that that would be my filter? If so that would be neat, since as you say, the components are affordable. While I don't understand how the filter works, if that is all there is to building it I'll give it a shot. However, if there is something that would get me close that is even simpler, a la Chris's 3 part filter that would be great.
                    Thanks for the input!
                    I don't think you'll get better flatness without going to this filter. Chris' filter really sucks down the 1.5k range, and that can lead to a murky midrange.

                    The filter I included takes care of the rise at both 1k and 5k without dipping further in the middle. Essentially- 2 bundles of three axial components with leads connected, connected end to end and then to the driver's positive terminal, and the C-R across the driver's terminals. That's all there is to it! The schematic is an easier to read layout, but all the red to the left is the same point electrically; 4 connections of input + and a lead of each component. The red in the middle is the same point electrically; connection of 6 leads of each of the notch parts. The red on the right connects the last 3 leads of the notch parts, the driver +, and the one end of the 12 ohm resistor.

                    I think you can do it!
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Single drivers are fun. TB factory graph is traced and then a 9 inch wide by 8 inch baffle added to the response. This has about 4 dB of baffle step correction.
                      John H

                      Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Rory's filter, looks pretty good


                        John H

                        Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gotta give some props to Bill Waslo.

                          Ain't XSIM lots of fun?!
                          I love the arbitrary filter topology and multiple on screen graphs.

                          I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                          "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                          High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                          SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                          My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by donradick View Post
                            Ain't XSIM lots of fun?!
                            I love the arbitrary filter topology and multiple on screen graphs.
                            One of the coolest things is to save the FR graph then swap parts to what you have on hand to get the same response.
                            John H

                            Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Many, many thanks guys. In the next couple of days I'll be ordering the parts for Wolf's filter. It seems like the way to go for a budget minded guy like me, plus it looks simple to put together. I'll let folks know how it sounds before New Years.

                              Best,
                              Jay
                              Last edited by Drjay; 12-16-2017, 09:28 AM.

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