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Expensive Crossover parts "Value"

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  • Expensive Crossover parts "Value"

    I have always gone with Dayton/Solen crossover parts. Is there any value using expensive crossover parts? Am I missing out on something?

  • #2
    The only way to really know is to compare on your own. My hearing is not that great, so I follow advice from people here who have given me confidence in their opinions, based on years of reading their posts.

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    • #3
      Try some Audyn Q4s!! Solens can be a bit gritty, and the Daytons are really nothing special.
      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #4
        I use good quality caps and resistors, but not especially expensive: I also use whatever type the speaker designer suggests. As for inductors, I use air and P-core as iron cores aren't readily available here (Australia).

        I have no idea whether there is an audible difference, but for example, there are 20 microfarad caps which cost $125 each (!) which I have no intention of using when a good quality Crosscap film/foil of the same value is A$10.

        If you were going to spend that sort of money on crossover parts, a design with higher performance drivers might be better value and provide better sound. To use a silly example, if you were going to use the $125 caps in Curt Campbell's Tritrix speakers speakers, the crossovers alone would cost about A$600 and you could build Curt's Aviatrix speakers instead. (Well, as long as the RS28F comes back in stock)

        Geoff

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        • #5
          Originally posted by xsilverjag View Post
          I have always gone with Dayton/Solen crossover parts. Is there any value using expensive crossover parts? Am I missing out on something?
          There can be, but for most ears, no. A driver that is capable of delivering the finer details of a recording can benefit from better components but I would not say in the uber class price range. Like most hobbies, that last bit of performance is the hardest and most expensive to obtain. But unlike other hobbies, the hardest to measure and quantify.

          I agree with Ben on the Audyn Q4. Solen, I prefer only in a shunt circuit and never on a tweeter. Sonicaps and Audyn plus are my "goto" for higher end budgets.

          I find less of a difference in inductors so i shy away from spending huge money there. Generally, I tend to use 15ga on a woofer and at least 18ga on a tweeter. I've tried foils a few times, but couldn't say there is a significant difference, goid or bad. Resistors, I stock 15w ceramics for the most part. On a pa rig, I use 25w in multiples. I do like the zister units available at Meniscus or Mills for their thicker leads. But I've use 10w Xircon units and haven't noticed any audible differences.
          https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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          • #6
            Keep in mind, changing brands of components will not "fix" a single problem. Most issues in speakers are not at all related to what brand, or even type, of capacitor. They will not lower distortion from crossing too low, they will not restore imaging from using SPL mismatched midwoofers, etc etc etc. Get the design right, then worry about the differences that different brands/types might bring to the mix.

            My official answer: if you do not have your crossover right, expensive components regardless of driver brand are a waste of money - there is going to be a far greater effect incrementing any brand/type of capacitor by 1uF than simply changing brand/type of the same value. When you believe you have reached the end of the road swapping values, go ahead and try different brands. Doesn't hurt.
            Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
              Keep in mind, changing brands of components will not "fix" a single problem. Most issues in speakers are not at all related to what brand, or even type, of capacitor. They will not lower distortion from crossing too low, they will not restore imaging from using SPL mismatched midwoofers, etc etc etc. Get the design right, then worry about the differences that different brands/types might bring to the mix.

              My official answer: if you do not have your crossover right, expensive components regardless of driver brand are a waste of money - there is going to be a far greater effect incrementing any brand/type of capacitor by 1uF than simply changing brand/type of the same value. When you believe you have reached the end of the road swapping values, go ahead and try different brands. Doesn't hurt.
              +1
              https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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              • #8
                Thanks!, this helps alot.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Geoff Millar View Post
                  I have no intention of using when a good quality Crosscap film/foil of the same value is A$10.
                  Geoff
                  FYI- the CrossCaps are not F/F. They are metallized polypropylene.
                  Wolf

                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post

                    FYI- the CrossCaps are not F/F. They are metallized polypropylene.
                    Wolf
                    Thanks Wolf

                    They seem to work OK for me, have used them in three of my four builds.

                    In Oz there's a huge price difference between standard and higher spec parts.

                    Geoff

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                    • #11
                      I've used them too, and have really no complaints except fragile leads.

                      Of note- Film/Foil caps can develop internal pin-holes under duress and abusive usage, and this generally shorts out the cap. In contrast, Metallized polypropylene caps are self-healing, and they will not short out under the same conditions. Not to say that this phenomenon of failure is typical, or even all that common, but it is still something to consider.

                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Removing the cap entirely would be in theory the best possible sound you could get.
                        Lack of any degradation (but no high pass function obviously)

                        So I do not see any way that a couple hundred dollar cap would get much closer to the ideal of "No cap".

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                        • #13
                          do resisters matter much?

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                          • #14
                            Nope, as long as they are in tolerance. That said, I do like using mills or Twisted Zister from Meniscus because of the thicker leads. Just a personal prefrence.
                            https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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                            • #15
                              There are definitely threads out there, just like for capacitors, where people claim to hear differences between resistors. One thing I have seen is that some better quality resistors have better quality leads, and thus are much more durable regardless of whether there is a sound difference or not.

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