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It’s that time audio enthusiasts! Registration for the 2019 Speaker Design Competition is now open! Visit midwestaudiofest.com for details and to list your speaker project. We are excited to see all returning participants, and look forward to meeting some new designers this year, as well! Be sure your plans include a visit to the Parts Express Tent Sale for the lowest prices of the year, and the Audio Swap Meet where you can buy and trade with other audio fans. We hope to see you this summer! Vivian and Jill
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SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax Design

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  • #76
    Happy Friday night everyone! I'm spending time catching up to myself constructing the two "real deal" cabinets up to the same point as my test cabinet. I did have a good laugh along the way though. My wife told me that all my clamps holding the walls to the front/rear/top/bottom remind her of Dr. Frankenstein's monster... so I guess I'm officially an evil genius!

    This evil genius plans to glue the slot ports into the cabinets this weekend, as well as install some 1" poplar rod braces and hopefully glue up the other wall of each cabinet. Solid chance I'll have to go buy more clamps at harbor freight to do all these glue-ups at one time. Somehow my collection of 16 twenty four inch long bar clamps just isn't enough to keep this project rolling without spending a day between glue-ups. Darn that whole "waiting on glue to dry" thing.

    One last mini-project plan... my test cabinet ended up with one threaded insert being off the mark. I bought some tapered plug cutters and JB wood weld epoxy from Lowes, and my plan is to remove the threaded insert, use MDF plugs with wood weld epoxy to fill the first hole, cut/sand that smooth, and drill a new hole in the proper location. This is what I get for trying to be smart and pre-drilling holes for inserts based on a bolt circle and pencil lines instead of just using a vix bit to drill a centered pilot hole!

    Anyway, here's a few more picture of Frankenstein's monsters

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    Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
    Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
    The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
    SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
    The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

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    • #77
      Whoo boy, lots of progress today! Got the ports glued in to the other two cabinets, so those are drying overnight. Figuring out how to push the ports down near the inside wall was tough. I kept re-inventing my approach with the spreader clamp to make it work, and it eventually got done. I also completed my mini-project threaded insert replacement for the one janky insert on the test cabinet. That plug cutter and JB Weld KwikWood epoxy did a great job of filling the hole after removing the insert and drilling the hole to size. After flush cutting and a little sanding, you'd hardly even notice there was a plug in place!

      I also made some dowel rod "markers" to use when I start assembling the other side wall. I intend to epoxy some 1" dowels across the cabinet, so I needed a way to mark the location on the other cabinet piece. Using some blind nails in some sample dowels should do the trick. All I'll need to do is line up the oversized outside wall piece then push it down onto the nail heads to mark my locations. Then I can use the forstner bit to make a shallow recess with diameter that's 1/8" oversize. This will allow me to pour some epoxy around the dowel to lock it into place inside the cabinet once it's all glued up.

      I took a boat load of pictures today, but I'll try to choose wisely. Here's 5 pictures with most of the threaded insert replacement process. I'll post some more pictures below this entry for the rest of today's work.

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      Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
      Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
      The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
      SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
      The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

      Comment


      • #78
        Post #2 today - Photos of the slot port glue-ups and dowel marking tools

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        Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
        Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
        The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
        SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
        The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

        Comment


        • #79
          After a day off due to contracting some kinda cold bug, I got back at it tonight. I custom fit the other two cabinets' coax chamber walls and got them glued up. I also cut my dowel supports and realized I didn't buy enough dowel for 3 cabinets AND the temporary tools. Oh well... I'll go pick up another bit of dowel stock tomorrow. Getting closer and closer to doing some real measurements!

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          Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
          Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
          The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
          SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
          The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

          Comment


          • #80
            You can always use square dowels
            John H

            Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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            • #81
              Originally posted by jhollander View Post
              You can always use square dowels
              Oh right! I've got lots of square dowel stock in my scrap bin. Thanks for pointing out the obvious solution. 😂 -- Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
              Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
              Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
              The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
              SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
              The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

              Comment


              • #82
                Hello again Everyone! I refuse to let this cold bug get the better of me. Tonight I made some "square dowels" at the suggestion of jhollander so I didn't have to make another trip to the hardware store. Thanks again for the suggestion!

                I also attempted to use my marking dowel tools with the blind nails in them, but quickly figured out that wasn't going to be anywhere near accurate. I had planned from the beginning to epoxy these dowels into place, so I purposely used a 1 1/8" OD forstner bit to make the dowel recesses. Asking three 1" dowels to stand still inside 1 1/8" holes while I positioned a board on top wasn't going to happen, so I aborted that mission and went back to old fashioned measuring and marking on my boards. This worked out much more accurately, and gave me the right line-up between the recesses.

                Once the recesses were drilled and the dowels test-fit was complete, I mixed up several small batches of 5 minute epoxy and jammed as much as I could down into each dowel recess (bottom side only). I'll let this dry overnight, then I can work on gluing up the other wall and epoxying the other side of the dowel into place.

                At this point, I find myself pretty impressed at how heavy these stand mount cabinets are becoming. I didn't really have a good idea of what to expect in mind when I started. I think I should have no issues with cabinet resonance!

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                Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                Comment


                • #83
                  Holy Clamps, Batman!

                  I think I hit a new shop record for most clamps in use at one time. Tonight I glued the other wall on to each of my three cabinets, using twelve clamps + two "gravity clamps" each. That brings me to a record 36 bar clamps, or 42 total clamps! Tomorrow I can flip the cabinets over and add some more epoxy to the other side of the dowels to really fix them into place, as well as run some silicone along the seams inside the cabinets. That should set me up for a lot of flush trim work on Saturday, and maybe even adding the 3/4" roundover to the narrow edges of the cabinets!

                  Outside of actual cabinet construction... I'm thinking about a way to make a six binding post temporary test terminal so I can wire individual lead pairs to the woofer, coax mid, and coax HF drivers. Since I've already cut my recessed space for the terminal plate that only has two pairs of binding posts, I'll need something that I can secure over top of that space. I ordered a home theater wall plate with 6 binding posts off The 'Zon, so when that arrives Friday I'll try installing that in some 1/2" MDF, or thinner hardboard. I'll post some pictures of whatever I cobble together. For now, here's some photos of the whole clamp army battling against the cabinets!

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                  Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                  Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                  The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                  SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                  The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Another day, another update.

                    This should be the last "run-of-the-mill" glue and clamps style update for a while. From here on out each cabinet operation will be an obvious and noteworthy step toward the final design, and we will finally get into the technical nitty gritty of measurements and XO design!


                    Tonight's work was simple but important. I took silicone caulk to the inside seams of the cabinet as extra insurance that all gaps between the two driver chambers as well as gaps between those chambers and the outside world were completely sealed up. The amount of wood glue I used should have done that job well enough, but I'm not going to pretend my joinery cuts and panel machining are THAT good!

                    Once I had all the caulk in place, I flipped each cabinet over so I could pour epoxy into the dowel holes on the other side wall. Thats it! From here forward I'll need to cobble up some test wiring (hopefully with that 6 banana post wall outlet that I mentioned yesterday) so that I can exercise each part of the three-way system independently without constantly swapping driver wires around on the coax.

                    More pictures for you all. Thanks for following along!

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                    Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                    Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                    The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                    SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                    The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Keith, what damping material are you planning for the coax compartment? And I'm still trying to figure out your finish approach. Would have thought you'd veneer wrap the core of the cabinet before attaching the sidewalls since they are going to be painted. What's your plan?
                      My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                      Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                      Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                      The Archers
                      Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                      The Gandalf's

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                        Keith, what damping material are you planning for the coax compartment? And I'm still trying to figure out your finish approach. Would have thought you'd veneer wrap the core of the cabinet before attaching the sidewalls since they are going to be painted. What's your plan?

                        Hey Kevin, The coax department is going to get a healthy stuffing with polyfill to match up with BassBox's expectations. I've never experimented with anything else like fiberglass or that neato looking blue jean based insulation. Do you know if one of those is better than the others?

                        Beyond that... let me try to explain things a bit more on the veneer. I thought about adding my side panels after veneering like you suggested, but I expected to run into some issues. For one, I wasn't sure how to produce these panels with an undercut to make the slot, and then properly align them while gluing up. This seemed a lot more complicated to me than building out the boxes, getting all the side panels flush trimmed, then dressing up the edges. I also wasn't sure about applying veneer over the cabinets then trying to use a down-cutting spiral bit to trim veneer and make a slot at the same time. This would work OK on flat parts, but going around the rounded edges seemed impossible.

                        All of that mental mess led me to this order of operations:
                        1) Glue up the cabinets and flush cut the side panels (My plans for this weekend)
                        2) apply 3/4" roundover to the short edges on the front and back of the cabinets (maybe also this weekend)
                        3) apply 45 deg chamfer to all edges of the side panels
                        4) take a pencil and mark a "landing zone" that's ~1/4" wide around the cabinets (This is where the veneer edge must end and the slot cutter must travel)
                        5) Apply veneer
                        6) use 1/4" slot cutter with large bearing to limit slot depth to 1/8", Cut a slot with a climb cut technique to push veneer fibers INTO the cabinet during the cut rather than pulling them AWAY from the cabinet causing tearout.

                        Here's a quick and dirty diagram showing what I am trying to achieve. Hope this helps! If I'm still not clear, just let me know and I'll try again to explain my thoughts.

                        Thanks for following along!

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                        Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                        Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                        The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                        SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                        The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Don't have enough experience with the different damping materials to say which one is better. The denim insulation is what we ended up using in the Black Widows and it seemed to be the most effective based on measurements. Lots of different opinions out there and many users of the polyfill so I suspect you'll be fine.

                          I understand your approach now, thanks for taking the time to explain. Wonder how the slot will impact diffraction, guess we'll see when you get to the measurements. Good luck!
                          My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                          Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                          Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                          The Archers
                          Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                          The Gandalf's

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Good Evening, Everyone!

                            I'm happy to report it's been a successful weekend in the garage I was able to get all the woodworking done on the speaker cabinets, clean up the mountain of MDF dust from all the router work, create a sealed-up test lead panel to individually connect the LF, MR, and HF driver sections for testing, AND repair a little easel from the "honey-do" list!

                            I'll put another post out for the test lead panel after this one. For now, let's talk MDF dust! I had to pull out all the current big guns in my router bit arsenal for these tasks. I used the 1/2" spiral flush trim bit to trim the side panels flush with the core of the cabinets. I was a bit over generous and gave myself 1/4" overhang on all side panels. In retrospect, I should have planned for 1/8" overhang. While it would have been a bit more work to line it all up during the glue and clamp stage, it would have saved a LOAD of time and effort in the flush trim stage.

                            After I got the flush work done, the jigsaw was used to rough cut the slot port opening just wide enough to get the 1/2" spiral bit down inside the slot. This was done to gain access to the slot port I had glued into place behind the front baffle previously. An initial rout was completed to get the slot port open, then I used chisels to clean up any glue that was dried on the surface down inside the slots. These glue bumps were translating to my slot cut since they were in the bearing's path of travel. A second rout after clean-up solved that issue and straightened up the slots nicely. A final router pass with a 1/4" spiral flush bit was used to reduce the radius in the corners of the slot ports from 1/4" down to 1/8".

                            The next big bit was my 3/4" roundover bit to shape both the top and bottom short edges on the front and back of the cabinets. Several test passes on a 2x4 chunk were used to dial in the height. I used the fixed base for my router because I don't feel like I have as much control over the bit depth with my plunge base. I set my router depth once with the fixed base and do all the cuts I need at that time. I'm guaranteed a consistent depth of cut across the project this way. The cuts themselves went well. Thankfully MDF machines easily, so I didn't have to take multiple passes on each edge to nibble out the profile. I kept a slow feed rate and constant eye on the job to make sure things went well.

                            Finally, the last big bit was a chamfer bit capable of a true 1/2" chamfer @ 45 degrees. Granted, I only needed a 3/8" @ 45 degree chamfer, so that cut wasn't nearly as demanding as the 3/4" round. I think this chamfer adds a nice bit of visual interest!

                            From here on I will be focusing on initial measurements. I'll be honest... I've gotten attached to my test cabinet, and planning for him to be a fully fledged contributor to my audio stable. That would make this a 3 speaker set, which I would be happy to use with an acoustically transparent projector screen in my basement as a proper center channel / LCR style setup. With respect to measurements, that means I will get one set of measurements now WITHOUT the final perimeter slot cut / veneer trim running through the front baffle. This may or may not have a meaningful impact on baffle diffraction, but we'll have measurements before and after to see!

                            Now if I could only figure out how to accelerate any kind of MDF baffle seam creep before I got into veneering! Wonder if leaving the cabinets in the bathroom while a steaming hot shower runs would help? Maybe running a warm air humidifier in their general area might do something? I figure moisture content is key since that's part of how wood expands and contracts, but I don't know if the material returns to it's previous state after a swell, or if it retains some dimensional changes.

                            Enough talk... more pictures! Enjoy!

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                            Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                            Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                            The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                            SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                            The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              As promised - a second post about the testing panel for individual driver connections. I had to get a bit creative here since I wanted the ability to connect to individual drivers without having to constantly swap the hookup lines on the coax driver. Since I already cut the hole for my dual binding post terminal plate, I couldn't just drill a few small holes inside the area that would eventually be gone. I needed something that would use the screw holes I already had AND would seal up against the cabinet. Time to get creative.

                              My first thought was a 3 speaker wall plate that's used as a pass-through in home theater to hide wires within the walls. Those are generally cheap, ~$8 on The Zon, so I ordered one. As expected, the binding posts are totally hollow, which is a giant leak path and thus a problem for my use. Thankfully it is an easily addressed problem. I simply took all the binding posts out of the plastic plate, notched a hole in the side of an RTV silicone sealant tube, and shot silicone into the hollow from one end while a dowel rod blocked the other side. Air-tight seal number 1 - check! From there, I put a bead of silicone on the plastic mounting plate under each binding post and re-installed those snugly. Air-tight seal number 2 - check!

                              At this point, I cut two 3ft sections of 10 conductor 18AWG wire that I had laying around. I stripped the main jacket off and separated all the conductors. I took the two wires of matching colors and used my drill to make some nice twisted wire sections to equal one 15AWG wire for use with this test panel. I went with the color coding scheme I've seen in some kits, positive leads being blue/purple for woofers, yellow for mids, and red for high frequency. The negative leads are black, grey, and white.

                              Once those wires were connected to the inside facing binding posts, I ran another bead of silicone along the perimeter of the plastic plate and screwed the plate to the MDF carrier to make air-tight seal #3

                              The final seal (yes... 4 different sealing operations here folks...) will be some speaker gasket tape on the MDF outside the perimeter of the screw pass throughs. I am securing this test panel to the back of the cabinet using the same screw holes and threaded inserts that the plastic terminal cup will use. I clamped the carrier to the cabinet and used a tiny transfer punch to mark the hole locations on the MDF carrier. That let me line things up perfectly.

                              So... Was this convoluted? Absolutely. Effective? I hope so. Fun? You betcha And that's what matters the most!

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                              Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                              Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                              The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                              SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                              The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                For MDF stabilization you want to try to get the excess moisture out. Plus you want the PVA glue lines to shrink. Some people have baked them similar to kiln drying. I've put a fan on them for 2 weeks inside the house. I've not noticed any difference in ghosting
                                John H

                                Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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