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Multiple tweeters. Lots of them!

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  • #16
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US9247339B2/en

    hmmm, not sure I understand...

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    • #17
      They would have a very tough time defending this "patent." Phased array is nothing novel. You can buy stuff like that from the barn.



      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
        Bunch of cheap tweeter may simply mean, they will stay away from x-max and have very low distortion. You guys cuming over the opportunity to piss on the design without realizing the benefits. Line arrays work somewhat in the same fashion.
        ​That's the problem with some of these GURU's thinking they know how ones design will sound like without actually listening to the speakers in person. lol

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        • #19
          Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
          Bunch of cheap tweeter may simply mean, they will stay away from x-max and have very low distortion. You guys cuming over the opportunity to piss on the design without realizing the benefits. Line arrays work somewhat in the same fashion.
          Sure they do Roman, but that's not quite what they're doing according to the description. They're using the hexagonal array as an upper midrange. Add up the surface area and they'd probably be better off with a dedicated cone midrange that wouldn't suffer from the off axis cancellation that such a large array is likely to produce. It may sound decent on axis. It might work, but physics being what it is, it seems highly doubtful.

          But what I find derision worthy is the hilarious excuse posted at the site that craps on beryllium tweeters because their speed of sound doesn't match that of the air and then comparing it to a violin. Talk about ridiculous.
          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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          • #20
            Tekton Design speakers are new to me and caught my attention only two weeks ago. My research has yielded only positive reviews--often comparing $3,000 Double Impact models to 5 digit speakers and given preferred ratings. Not just good for the price, but good even if they cost much more.
            http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/tekton_enzo_e.html

            Let's not deride them. Who wants to clone them? Clearly they must be doing something right. Some of the models use three tweeter array instead of 7.
            http://www.tektondesign.com/pendragon.html

            Anyone recognize the tweeters? I think I read some of them were SB Acoustics.

            They look very attractive to me. He has several models priced between $650 and $3,500, all very efficient, some modest in size, all modest in price for great performance. What's not to like? I plan to check them out.

            Pete, They have one design with a ribbon tweeter: http://www.tektondesign.com/uruz.html Do you recognize it?
            Pendragon $2000 pair delivered - click below to view all purchase options - Free shipping within continental US "Tekton Design... rocked the audiophile and home theater world this year with the...

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            • #21

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              • #22
                With edge you can model multiple tweeters and move the mic off axis to see what happens. Fun for all.
                John H

                Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by marvin View Post
                  Tekton Design speakers are new to me and caught my attention only two weeks ago. My research has yielded only positive reviews--often comparing $3,000 Double Impact models to 5 digit speakers and given preferred ratings. Not just good for the price, but good even if they cost much more.
                  http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/tekton_enzo_e.html

                  Let's not deride them. Who wants to clone them? Clearly they must be doing something right. Some of the models use three tweeter array instead of 7.
                  http://www.tektondesign.com/pendragon.html

                  Anyone recognize the tweeters? I think I read some of them were SB Acoustics.

                  They look very attractive to me. He has several models priced between $650 and $3,500, all very efficient, some modest in size, all modest in price for great performance. What's not to like? I plan to check them out.

                  Pete, They have one design with a ribbon tweeter: http://www.tektondesign.com/uruz.html Do you recognize it?
                  Our own mzisserson reviewed the 3 tweeter speaker a few years ago and he found it to be pretty good if my memory serves me well. Line arrays work. There's no doubt about that at all.

                  I don't know if I've heard any Tekton at shows or not. I've no reason to think they couldn't sound quite good. But attractive? Not a word I would have used to describe the look. But that's purely personal taste and everyone has a valid opinion of what they like. I know my wife would kick my a$$ if I put something like that in the living room.

                  Like I said, the derision from me is purely based on the pretty ridiculous nonsense I saw about Beryillium tweeters and the speed of sound in air with comparisons to violins.

                  How does that reasoning work out with a ribbon tweeter? As far as I remember, the speed of sound in aluminum is much higher than the speed of sound in air. Or does the reasoning only apply to voice coil driven transducers?

                  The world may never know.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                  • #24
                    Gotta come up with some sort of audiophilespeak to separate you from the other producers of voodoo.

                    Subwoofers aren't intended to produce the harmonics of a Fender bass. That's what midranges and woofers are for.
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                    Comment


                    • #25

                      Sure they do Roman, but that's not quite what they're doing according to the description. They're using the hexagonal array as an upper midrange. Add up the surface area and they'd probably be better off with a dedicated cone midrange that wouldn't suffer from the off axis cancellation that such a large array is likely to produce. It may sound decent on axis. It might work, but physics being what it is, it seems highly doubtful.

                      But what I find derision worthy is the hilarious excuse posted at the site that craps on beryllium tweeters because their speed of sound doesn't match that of the air and then comparing it to a violin. Talk about ridiculous.
                      Well, if we take some of the high end descriptions seriously, time machine already exist.
                      http://www.diy-ny.com/

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                      • #26

                        Our own mzisserson reviewed the 3 tweeter speaker a few years ago and he found it to be pretty good if my memory serves me well. Line arrays work. There's no doubt about that at all.
                        .
                        Mike also build similar speaker for the Iron Driver competition. I remember it been super smooth in the treble and also having a very narrow vertical spread. I am not sure if he shaded it.

                        http://www.diy-ny.com/

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
                          Bunch of cheap tweeter may simply mean, they will stay away from x-max and have very low distortion. You guys cuming over the opportunity to piss on the design without realizing the benefits. Line arrays work somewhat in the same fashion.
                          There's a right way and a wrong way to use multiple tweeters. On the face of it this is an example of the wrong way. It's possible that it's correctly engineered, which would be revealed by a set of polar plots. There aren't any.polar, axial or any other variety. OTOH this comment from the designer is pure unadulterated audiophile poppycock:

                          Important Note: did you know sound waves travel through beryllium over 37 times faster than sound waves travel through air?! Talk about a mismatch and a serious conflict of musical interests! Sounds travel through pulps and textiles at or less than the speed of sound through air so air always wins the race over the transverse propagation of the vibrations through the cone. In my opinion, beryllium pistons are a giant no-no as the vibrating source of your sound.

                          ​For example: in a beryllium-based acoustic device, the vibrations travel through the beryllium transversely and internally from the voice coil source to the outer cone edge 37 times faster than the sound can radiate from the inner-center of the cone to the outer edge of the cone through the air. Anyone care to listen to a solid beryllium or magnesium violin? Highly doubtful.



                          Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
                          That's the problem with some of these GURU's thinking they know how ones design will sound like without actually listening to the speakers in person. l
                          Being educated and experienced enough in how speakers work to know what a design is capable of, and isn't capable of, is what separates experts from the general public. Nonsensical advertising piffle isn't aimed at that very small segment of the population who are audio experts and see right through it, it's aimed at the vast majority of the population who might be fooled.
                          www.billfitzmaurice.com
                          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                          • #28

                            Our own mzisserson reviewed the 3 tweeter speaker a few years ago and he found it to be pretty good if my memory serves me well. Line arrays work. There's no doubt about that at all.

                            I don't know if I've heard any Tekton at shows or not. I've no reason to think they couldn't sound quite good. But attractive? Not a word I would have used to describe the look. But that's purely personal taste and everyone has a valid opinion of what they like. I know my wife would kick my a$$ if I put something like that in the living room.

                            Like I said, the derision from me is purely based on the pretty ridiculous nonsense I saw about Beryillium tweeters and the speed of sound in air with comparisons to violins.

                            How does that reasoning work out with a ribbon tweeter? As far as I remember, the speed of sound in aluminum is much higher than the speed of sound in air. Or does the reasoning only apply to voice coil driven transducers?

                            The world may never know.

                            I agree, Pete, attractive was a poor word choice on my part. I find the 7 tweeter array unattractive, too. I was trying to say the performance and price of the lower priced models (650-3,000) are attractive to me. If I wanted to buy one I would certainly choose the 3 tweet array before the 7, but I could live with the 7 behind a grill cloth if it sounded better.

                            The Tekton website really lacks any useful technological info, but I have yet to see a credible negative review of the lower priced speakers.

                            Are those off the shelf or custom tweeters and woofers? Is this something we can replicate or Is he doing something unusual with the xover?
                            Last edited by marvin; 03-02-2018, 02:38 PM.

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                            • #29
                              I've heard a set of the Tekton Double Impacts. Dave Thomson of Raven Audio has a working set on display in his Onalaska, Tx showroom. I didn't "audition" them, but rather simply heard them play from a CD that Dave had in the CD player in that setup as he was showing me around. Really I was there to audition the Legacy Audio Calibre's which I subsequently purchased. From what I recall, they [Tektons] sounded good, but nothing to write home about.

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                              • #30

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