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Recommendation: Spiral up-cut bit

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  • Recommendation: Spiral up-cut bit

    I've been using a cheap Bosch bit for a while, and have become quite well versed in feed rate, pressure, and depth for using it that it has lasted quite some time, but it is beginning to show its age. Can you guys recommend a nice piece for me to upgrade to? I was looking on Amazon and didn't realize how many options I would have and they all have great reviews it seems.

    Thanks for any guidance on deciding. Excited for some projects this year and getting some new bits in my arsenal.

    Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

  • #2
    I'd consider whiteside, amana, cmt, infinity, maybe freud.

    fwiw I believe bosch purchased freud's rounter bit line about 10 yrs ago, not that it necessarily means that the bit's are the same quality.

    woodcraft carries whiteside if you want to take a look at one

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    • #3
      Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

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      • #4
        on the budget Yonico makes very good bits. Ama sells them.
        For premium carbide, Onsrud.
        http://www.diy-ny.com/

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        • #5
          maybe this whiteside link will help

          https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/...up-down-spiral

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          • #6
            interesting onsrud link worth looking at.

            http://www.onsrud.com/plusdocs/Doc/i...odel.code=wood

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            • #7
              Hi Joey, I'm a fan of Whiteside for several reasons. First and foremost, their bits are top notch quality and are all made in the USA at their North Carolina factory. Second, their service is also top notch. I bought a solid carbide 1/2" spiral flush trim bit for my Jedi Mind Trick subwoofers from Amazon and it arrived somewhat dull from the start. Made me think that someone bought it, used it, then returned it to Amazon. I contacted Whiteside who asked me to send them the bit. They agreed it was dull and sent me a brand new bit right away.

              As for their different types of spiral up cut bits, I've been plenty satisfied with the RU2100 solid carbide bit. It's 1/4" shank which works with tools like the Jasper Jig for circle cutting, it has 1" flute length, which is plenty for speaker baffles (I've even used these to cut through 1.25" thick baffles as I make the cut in depth stages). Best of all, it's only $20 on Amazon. I've used the same bit for the last few years and it is still plenty sharp. Just watch for pitch and gunk buildup and clean the bit occasionally and it should keep on serving you well.

              Hope this helped!
              Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
              Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
              The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
              SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax

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              • #8
                I've been using Whiteside up, down and compression bits for routing recently, and I like them a lot for their cost/performance ratio. And they do work great. I particularly have been liking the compression bits.
                https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/...bits-two-flute

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                • #9
                  After my last spiral upcut bit died, I finished the cut with a 1/2" shank, 1/4" diameter two flute straight cutting but, and it worked so well that I haven't bought a replacement spiral bit yet. I'll second Whiteside, very nice router bits.

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                  • #10
                    I have found the reviews at Amazon for router bits to be pretty good. I have a few expensive Freud bits for certain tasks, some inexpensive Yonico bits for others. I have a Whiteside spiral upcut that had good reviews and a nice price and I'm perfectly happy with it. My guess is that a spiral cutting bit is pretty simple compared to some of the architectural bits.

                    "Whiteside Router Bits RU2100 Standard Spiral Bit with Up Cut Solid Carbide 1/4-Inch Cutting Diameter and 1-Inch Cutting Length"

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                    • #11
                      I sell this this stuff for a living (20 years), Whiteside, CMT, Amana, all top notch.

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                      • #12
                        I've used several Freud bits simply because they are available the local HD. They work well enough, aren't TOO expensive, and are pretty sharp. But they all die the same, explosive, bit shattering death. Cutting MDF causes a fair amount of heat buildup since the dust doesn't clear super well without vacuum assistance. They all blue-out at some point (like routing holes for a pair of cabinets) and I wait for them to explode. Then I forget that I need to order a new bit, it shatters, and I run to HD 10 minutes before they close so I can keep going on the project. If I were more patient they would last much longer. But in all fairness, they have done very well for how much I beat on them.

                        I like many of the Freud bits that I own; they are good quality. But the Whiteside bits I own have proven to be of better quality. I'll be trying a spiral upcut here shortly. I was looking for a three flute but didn't have much luck in 1/4". Either that or they were cost prohibitive. Thanks for reminding me to spend more money, Joey... Haha.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blenton View Post
                          ...But they all die the same, explosive, bit shattering death...
                          Blenton, that sounds rather dangerous! Maybe I'm a bit OCD about vacuuming my MDF dust, but I've never had a bit blue out on me and shatter from overheating. When this happens, are you taking small bites, or going for deep cuts and max material removal? Not trying to tell you how to run your shop... but I'd hate for you to get hurt while enjoying your hobbies!
                          Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                          Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                          The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                          SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks guys! I went ahead and picked up that 2100 Whiteside.

                            I have had bits break on me and luckily the worst that has happened is slight marring of my project....I think mine were freud's or bosch's straight bits when that happened....

                            I love spending money ( that I have or don't have ) so always eager to help people spend theirs. :p Trying to make this side hustle with this new bit! :D
                            Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post

                              Blenton, that sounds rather dangerous! Maybe I'm a bit OCD about vacuuming my MDF dust, but I've never had a bit blue out on me and shatter from overheating. When this happens, are you taking small bites, or going for deep cuts and max material removal? Not trying to tell you how to run your shop... but I'd hate for you to get hurt while enjoying your hobbies!
                              Dangerous?? Well... maybe... I do take several cuts per hole. I also use vacuum extraction with my router but because of the way the jig is setup, it prevents the vacuum from completely clearing the groove. I usually, but not always, run the vacuum over the groove after deeper cuts to better clear it. It's more of what gets stuck in there while making each pass. Plus, taking progressively deeper cuts means the flutes on the bit are rubbing just a hair on the sides of the cut as it goes deeper. I've checked feed speeds for the bit size, flutes, and material, as well as listening for machine feedback/chatter - though, turning a router in a circle by hand doesn't exactly produce precise feed speeds like the old CNC mill I used to run

                              Looking at the bits, the tips are still sharp and un-blued, meaning my feed speed is good. Too slow of feed rate (taking in to account material, depth of cut, and spindle speed) and the tip of the bit does more rubbing than cutting, which dulls and blues the tip. The chips that are cut with the tip of the bit are actually what pull the heat away from bit, so going to slow means you aren't removing enough material or heat. If your feed rate is too fast, the bit will often chatter or load the router too much, which will typically physical cause damage to the workpiece or bit. If your setup is robust enough and the material miraculously survives unscathed, the tip of the bit will blue and dull since the excess heat removes any heat treating in the metal.

                              Instead, where the bits are bluing is about 1/2" or more up the shaft - meaning the heat is being generated by the flutes rubbing against the workpiece higher up in the groove. What typically causes the failure is the inherent problem with most circle jigs - they use a polymer base with an 1/8" pin that takes all of the forces put on the router such as pushing the router to around the hole (in a not-always-tangential-way), as well as the forces generated by the bit pulling or pushing on the material. Once a groove is started, the bit increasingly uses the wall of the groove more and more to align itself. The deeper the cut, the more wall to rub and more heat the bit has to dissipate - either through convection through the metal bit to the air, or through the chips as discussed earlier. Add the chips that aren't ejected or extracted and this is what causes the heat build up. It is often exacerbated when the holes on the jig for the pin become worn from use (like that same size whole you are using for common tweeter cutouts, terminal clips, ports, etc) which causes the bit to rub even more on the sides of the groove, creating more heat. Eventually, that little bit of play can cause the router to dig too deep or too fast, dramatically increasing the feed rate even for a second which, as pointed out earlier, causes physical damage to the bit.

                              When they explode, they usually fracture just above or below the wood surface while taking one of the last passes - usually for an oft-used size on the router template. Where it breaks is good because the majority of the bit is buried in the workpiece and it contains most of the shrapnel. It's bad because the bit can become buried in the work piece. But even worse, it can often cause the jig to rock up just a bit, sometimes popping the jib off the pin, then drop back down on to the workpiece. If the bit fracture below the surface, there is a nice little jagged nub left on the end to gouge your work piece. But honestly, there are usually only a couple of pieces of the bit and they are well contained. Not at all like having a large bit explode on a shaper or having a tooth come off a blade on the table saw (had that happen with a brand new, high dollar, Forrest Wood Worker II blade; I had proper safety gear on but i was lucky it hit me in the chest while wearing a sweater, so no damage; I thought I had hit a knot even though the wood looks clean as could be; found the tooth when I brushed myself off and heard a tink-tink-tink on the ground..)

                              So, really, it's just a hazard involved in the business/hobby that should be planned for and have steps taken to mitigate any problems it can cause. I don't mean to scare anybody or have them think the bit is a ticking time bomb - just be careful. Running a CNC, I was able to dial in feed rates so bits wore out over time instead of exploding. But even then, the most heavily used bits were 1/2" bits; the 1/4" bits often blued around the same place as the ones I described above. 1/4" bits have much less mass to convect heat than a 1/2' bit, smaller flutes to eject chips, and are more prone to deflection than larger bits.

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