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Subwoofer shorting rings really necessary?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by View Post

    ​I'm glad at least someone around here (you) has a sense of humor! I watched the entire skit. And this my friend, is post 6500 for me.
    Noob . . .
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post

      Noob . . .
      BWAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!
      *cough*
      Wolf
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      • #18
        Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
        Well then that contradicts what Bill had said about "Full range drivers work into the vocal range, subs don't.", now doesn't it.
        IMO if you run a speaker into the vocal range it's not being used as a subwoofer. You're welcome to have your own opinion.
        www.billfitzmaurice.com
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        • #19


          Thanks for that, I had a good laugh. I had forgotten how funny they could be.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Wolf View Post

            BWAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!
            *cough*
            Wolf
            ​Forum guidelines inhibit me from replying to him in kind.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Wolf View Post

              BWAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!
              *cough*
              Wolf
              I thought you might find that funny as a fellow Obsessed member.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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              • #22
                Thanks, all, for the responses.

                I did a little more digging around on the site here and found another interesting thread along the same lines from several years back. There were several posts from long-time users like Jeff B., Pete, and even John K. Interesting read...

                My take-away thus far is that, like most things speaker related, one component or parameter isnt enough of an indicator to judge a driver by. When it comes to shorting rings on a driver to be used as a subwoofer (say, 100hz and below as I original mentioned), the presence of the rings themselves do not make the driver better suited for that particular application.

                The rings DO however, make it possible to reduce the Le curve of the driver and reduce distortion overall, including upper order harmonics. But they are not the only factor in determining the distortion profile of a driver; things like suspension and mechanical noise are also main contributors. So the Le curve would appear much more important than simply the single number, which is only applicable at one frequency. So, like a the FR curve of a driver, a flatter Le curve is desirable.

                There was some debate on the other thread about whether or not our ears are sensitive enough in those sonic regions to make the Le reduction (and associated reduction in distortion) a worthwhile endeavor. Some even went so far as to ascert that our ears are even more sensitive to distortion in that region. The thrice xeroxed graphs were difficult to decipher in my phone, so I will have to look in to that more.
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                • #23
                  Harmonic distortion of low frequencies is probably a little easier to hear than harmonic distortion of higher frequencies simply because our ears are attuned to the midrange. So 1% THD of a 100Hz signal with its midrange components will be more noticeable than 1000Hz with the same level of THD.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post
                    So 1% THD of a 100Hz signal with its midrange components will be more noticeable than 1000Hz with the same level of THD.
                    True, because it's the ear is a lot more sensitive at the frequencies of those harmonics that make up the THD than they are at 100Hz, but they're not more sensitive to the harmonics of 1kHz than they are to 1kHz. Still, the THD created at 100Hz due to non linearity of Le for the lack of shorting rings isn't going to amount to diddly, as there's not enough inductive reactance present at 100Hz for the shorting rings to make linear.
                    www.billfitzmaurice.com
                    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                      Still, the THD created at 100Hz due to non linearity of Le for the lack of shorting rings isn't going to amount to diddly, as there's not enough inductive reactance present at 100Hz for the shorting rings to make linear.

                      Bill would you go as far as to say that the massive aluminum shorting rings in the new Peerless/Tymphany superwoofer won't amount to much if you LPF it at say 200-300Hz? Or would they make a difference at that point?

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                      • #26
                        Look at the impedance chart for the driver, Le is only what I'd call significant where impedance is at least twice Re.
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                        www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                        • #27
                          Isn't the amount of inductance changing with excursion the cause for distortion?
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                          • #28
                            One thing it does is reduce eddy currents in the metal in the pole-piece gap which is a function of coil displacement. It reduces that portion of non-linear distortion. Lowering the impedance change with frequency is an additional benefit. That impedance change can vary with displacement, so the interaction with the crossover will vary with displacement. That's another form of non-linear distortion.

                            dlr
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                              Look at the impedance chart for the driver, Le is only what I'd call significant where impedance is at least twice Re.

                              Based on this and the chart



                              The light gray scale division are 2ohms. Re is 3.09Ω, so impedance goes above 6ohms right around 100Hz. Therefore it's your take that if this speaker is X'over above 100Hz, that the rings would be a benefit, correct?

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                              • #30
                                I'd say that Le becomes an issue starting around 150Hz, and gets more problematic as you go higher. I wouldn't use it above 100Hz, if that high, that's not what subs are for, especially those with such a long xmax. I suspect that if you took it to 200Hz or more at high excursion that modulation distortion would be more of an issue than non-linear Le.
                                www.billfitzmaurice.com
                                www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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