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I have my work cut out for me KEF LS50

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  • #16

    Based on the price of the LS50, I'd wager that the Anarchy is every bit as good as that woofer, if not better, especially when you consider the ability to pump out the low end. And there's little doubt you could equal that tweeter easily enough. The LS50 is a well balanced speaker, smooth response, etc. A good DIY design can do that as well.

    I think if you put the Apollo TM and the LS50 side by side, most folks would go with Apollo just because it can pound out the low end. We all know people love their bass. And those Wavecor tweets are pretty nice.
    J

    It would be an interesting comparison. The Ares would be a fair comparison from a size perspective but from a cost perspective you can do a lot more. I am not sure that a good DIY would be enough without good construction details as well and that varies a lot. For instance mine are not going to have the level of construction that a more skilled wood worker would achieve. But my next build I will focus on the box more.

    Do you feel the Anarcy as at the SS Revelator level? How about the Wavecore compared to say a Hiquphon OW1 or other highly regarded tweet?

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    • #17

      Oh sure. LOTS of excellent DIY small bookshelf speakers sound amazing. Of course, everything is subjective, but it's not too difficult to find better components than those that go into the LS50. It's definitely a very good speaker and unique in that the coaxial design is top notch. But the tweeter is nothing really special and the woofer is pretty average in terms of linearity and distortion performance. I heard a stellar bookshelf at the Kentucky DIY a couple years ago that used the Tang Band W4-1720 underhung woofer. I know I'd rather have it than the LS50. I'd love to put the Ares next to the LS50. I have a feeling even that inexpensive bookshelf would be better.

      The Ares has smoother response than this . . .
      That extra energy in the 2K-5K region could get a little fatiguing after a while.

      I cannot really comment on the chart. I do have my continuum frequency response graph and it looks great. In fact it is. But it does not sound nearly at the level of the LS50 with anything but vocals which the continuum excels. If the Ares can keep up with the Continuum in the the midrange and best the LS50 on the low end, you certainly have a pretty incredible speaker on your hands and one that I will most certainly be interested in building. A guy can only resist so long

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      • #18

        That would be the ones!
        I am going to check these out.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by stephenmarklay View Post

          I cannot really comment on the chart. I do have my continuum frequency response graph and it looks great. In fact it is. But it does not sound nearly at the level of the LS50 with anything but vocals which the continuum excels. If the Ares can keep up with the Continuum in the the midrange and best the LS50 on the low end, you certainly have a pretty incredible speaker on your hands and one that I will most certainly be interested in building. A guy can only resist so long


          I have heard the LS-50 and yes it does sound great for the size and all, nothing against it, but have also seen a distortion chart for it, and at the low end, it has fairly high distortion, something I was not expecting. In fact not really even better than many run of the mill retail far cheaper speakers.


          https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...ticle&id=941:n rc-measurements-kef-ls50-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153



          Not bashing on the LS-50, but maybe there is only so much a small woofer that size can do, and wonder if the distortion is giving a bit of impression of more bass than it truly has?
          Attached Files
          Last edited by kevintomb; 04-05-2018, 08:53 AM. Reason: added distortion chart

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          • #20
            Originally posted by stephenmarklay View Post
            J

            It would be an interesting comparison. The Ares would be a fair comparison from a size perspective but from a cost perspective you can do a lot more. I am not sure that a good DIY would be enough without good construction details as well and that varies a lot. For instance mine are not going to have the level of construction that a more skilled wood worker would achieve. But my next build I will focus on the box more.

            Do you feel the Anarcy as at the SS Revelator level? How about the Wavecore compared to say a Hiquphon OW1 or other highly regarded tweet? One may notice these are the drivers used in Paul C’s Carrera. Just to be clear, I am not pitting your design and Paul’s. This is simply a driver comparison.
            A solid enclosure isn't that tough to do. Good interior damping to compliment well braced walls will do a lot to make the cabinet a non-contributor to the sound.

            Hard to say if the Anarchy is at the level of the Revelator. On paper, the measurements would bear that out. Zaph's data on the Anarchy 7" puts it in the upper echelon in terms of linearity and distortion. And on pure output capacity, it has no peer. But it literally blows away the woofer in the LS50. It's not even fair.

            I don't know if I'd put the Wavecor up there with the Hiquphon for example, but it clearly is able to cross lower than the venerable Hiq. I plan on building an Anarchy monitor in the next few months using an interesting design from Bozhen New Audio Lab, the CQ76. I'd also like to try it with the Aurum Cantus AST2560 and the new Viawave.

            The next two charts compare the Anarchy to the Revelator. The Anarchy clearly wins in the bass region. The Revelator has a slight edge in the midrange and a smoother overall upper frequency response.
            The takeaway is that the Anarchy has an issue at 1500Hz, but even there the cone breakup induced distortion is still below 1%. It's better suited to a crossover to a more robust tweeter than something like the Hiq while the Revelator is not quite so limited. Regardless the issue at 1500Hz, the Anarchy performance is top-tier.

            Top: Anarchy
            Bottom: Revelator





            R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
            Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

            95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
            "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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            • #21
              Thanks everyone. Good stuff.

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              • #22
                But it literally blows away the woofer in the LS50. It's not even fair.
                Below 200 Hz, sure. But the KEF is almost certainly cleaner through the midrange

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by humphreyblowdart View Post
                  If I had to use either the Anarchy or the KEF as a pure midrange, I'd go with the KEF. But keep in mind that when playing a wide range music signal that causes significant excursion, that little KEF's midrange will be a sea of IMD much more quickly. As a midwoofer, the choice is obvious. And because of the cone breakup, Apollo is crossed at around 1300Hz to the Wavecor and there's also a tank circuit to squelch the breakup.

                  At 100dB, I have a feeling I know which speaker will be crying "uncle."

                  Paired up with a sub at 100Hz, and with a tweak to the crossover, that LS50 has the potential to be excellent.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                  • #24
                    An enterprising DIYer looking to exploit the best traits of both might contact KEF support with their LS50 serial number and find some reason to request a pair of replacement drivers.

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                    • #25
                      Or just gut them. $1300 for a pair of toasters? Not for me.

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                      • #26
                        I've never seen these before, but they might be an option.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by humphreyblowdart View Post
                          Also worth mentioning that the KEF R300 is on sale for $1,300/pr. during the month of April—fully assembled and finished. That might be a more interesting design goal to try to match/exceed.
                          Those look like something near 19 liters each and a 50 Hz f3. Seems easy enough, unless I have to pay for my time and sell them for a profit.
                          John H

                          Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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                          • #28

                            If I had to use either the Anarchy or the KEF as a pure midrange, I'd go with the KEF. But keep in mind that when playing a wide range music signal that causes significant excursion, that little KEF's midrange will be a sea of IMD much more quickly. As a midwoofer, the choice is obvious. And because of the cone breakup, Apollo is crossed at around 1300Hz to the Wavecor and there's also a tank circuit to squelch the breakup.

                            At 100dB, I have a feeling I know which speaker will be crying "uncle."

                            Paired up with a sub at 100Hz, and with a tweak to the crossover, that LS50 has the potential to be excellent.
                            I like the LS50 enough to build a sub for them for sure.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by humphreyblowdart View Post
                              An enterprising DIYer looking to exploit the best traits of both might contact KEF support with their LS50 serial number and find some reason to request a pair of replacement drivers.
                              I have been wondering if there are any really nice, not crazy expensive, coax drivers I could build up. Could be fun.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by stephenmarklay View Post

                                I like the LS50 enough to build a sub for them for sure.
                                Take an impedance sweep of the LS50, and design a compensation network that tames the 2K-5K region. Probably no more than 3 components, parallel RLC.
                                R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                                Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                                95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                                "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                                Comment

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