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What makes a good Rock n Roll speaker?

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  • Originally posted by Sydney View Post
    More like an example of the realistic compromises ( Hoffman's Law etc ) necessary when using relatively small (6.5") drivers ( low Sd ) tuned low ( 28Hz ). Excursion doesn't necessarily replace radiating surface area in air movement ( acoustic impedance favors larger surface area ).
    Sydney, if you'd bother to slow down and look for a second, you'd realize that the pair of 7" woofers has more surface area than an 8" woofer, so your reasoning doesn't really hold.

    The shape of the response is due to the tuning of the enclosure. cjd chose a low tuning to give a more gradual roll off to the bass performance, knowing him, so that it better complimented a typical listening room.
    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Montana1 View Post
      Could it be that this measurement was gated? Therefore everything below say 200 hz is not valid. I would think duel Anarchy woofers would have much better low end extension then what is shown in that graph.
      Depending on the enclosure tuning, the response shape can vary quite a bit. But I'd wager that the posted response plots aren't really accurate below 200Hz.

      Here's a guess at the tuning in the Apollo MTM vs a possible 28Hz tuned Ansonica enclosure. Both of these responses are usable but will definitely flavor the sound of the lower octaves. Factor in a typical room and the room-gain curve, and the larger enclosure with the lower tuning would probably offer truly deeper bass response at the penalty of a larger enclosure.
      Click image for larger version

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      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

      Comment


      • Sydney, if you'd bother to slow down and look for a second, ...
        The opinion I stated was in regard to a 6.5" driver ( posts #99 - 101 ) .
        I have read the Vance D test on the W06-017R 6.5:" driver ( originally posted in V.C. ) . His report was objective and comprehensive.
        The referenced design takes a driver with 46fs down to 28hz with a EBS tuning.
        While it is a good driver, it is still subject to Physics ( actually SD .0129 radiating surface is closer to 5" diameter each ) .
        I would prefer you ignore my posts rather than this 1st person condescension.
        "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
        “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
        "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

        Comment


        • Sydney, again you're ignoring the FACT that there are two woofers in the design, with a combined surface area greater than an 8" woofer.

          262cm^2 for dual Anarchy or 258cm^2 for your cited Sd.
          225cm^2 for a single RS225

          Dual 7s have more area than the venerable RS225 8" woofer. Not only that, they have twice the total available linear displacement.

          Now, does physics apply or doesn't it? Or do you insist that a line array of 10 7" woofers won't have the surface area to properly render bass frequencies simply because of their diameter?
          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

          Comment


          • No I did not ignore that there are 2 drivers and their combined Sd.
            A little larger than a 8" being asked to provide reasonable reproduction of high demand source material down to 28Hz. (wow)
            And a design that presumes room gain in a "typical room" ( not sure what that really means ). and
            will definitely flavor the sound of the lower octaves
            ( no thanks )

            Perhaps it comes down to what comprises personal requirements. Room size, SPL, Acceptable level of performance.

            I detect than there is a defensive posture being taken because the designer is a 'friend'.
            While subjectively some liked the design, it does not mean it would be satisfactory for all.
            Certainly not for my purposes, nor most my acquaintances ( and no we don't listen at deafening levels ) .
            In a related thread I posted a John Eargle article on design of Studio Monitors. The implementation philosophy contained there is in line with my take on the criteria necessary to address the R&R task.
            Last edited by Sydney; 04-16-2018, 01:23 PM.
            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
            “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

            Comment


            • What makes a good Rock n Roll speaker?












              craigk

              " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

              Comment


              • no beer while at the mixing board thanks
                "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                Comment


                • Humulus lupulus has a cladistic cousin that's usually consumed dry. You're never going to recreate the sensory experience of a live concert without its smell.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sydney View Post
                    No I did not ignore that there are 2 drivers and their combined Sd.
                    A little larger than a 8" being asked to provide reasonable reproduction of high demand source material down to 28Hz. (wow)
                    And a design that presumes room gain in a "typical room" ( not sure what that really means ). and ( no thanks )

                    Perhaps it comes down to what comprises personal requirements. Room size, SPL, Acceptable level of performance.

                    I detect than there is a defensive posture being taken because the designer is a 'friend'.
                    While subjectively some liked the design, it does not mean it would be satisfactory for all.
                    Certainly not for my purposes, nor most my acquaintances ( and no we don't listen at deafening levels ) .
                    In a related thread I posted a John Eargle article on design of Studio Monitors. The implementation philosophy contained there is in line with my take on the criteria necessary to address the R&R task.
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                    Comment


                    • How could I forget that ONLY your listening experience is relevant and applicable to ALL other persons and situations.
                      PLEASE put me on your ignore list - Thanks
                      Last edited by Sydney; 04-16-2018, 04:11 PM.
                      "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                      “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                      "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sydney View Post
                        How could I forget that ONLY your listening experience is relevant and applicable to ALL other persons and situations.
                        PLEASE put me on your ignore list - Thanks
                        So, we are supposed to take the advice of someone who’s never heard a speaker say it can’t do something that someone else who’s actually heard them says it can? Or that a speaker that doesn’t use pro sound woofers and compression horn tweeters simply can’t play rock and roll?

                        Hahahahahaha.

                        You can choose to ignore me too.
                        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                        Comment


                        • This is all my fault.

                          Comment


                          • When entered into bass box pro, 4 Anarchy drivers will do 120dB down to 32hz.
                            That is astounding performance THE END.
                            Guess xmax's age.

                            My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

                            Comment


                            • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6yWJzCg2y8 King kong aint got Dee Bee on me..LMAO

                              Comment



                              • Depending on the enclosure tuning, the response shape can vary quite a bit. But I'd wager that the posted response plots aren't really accurate below 200Hz.

                                Here's a guess at the tuning in the Apollo MTM vs a possible 28Hz tuned Ansonica enclosure. Both of these responses are usable but will definitely flavor the sound of the lower octaves. Factor in a typical room and the room-gain curve, and the larger enclosure with the lower tuning would probably offer truly deeper bass response at the penalty of a larger enclosure.
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1372884[/ATTACH]
                                Hi Pete,
                                I have existing cabs that are around 40 liters net volume and do appear to be a good candidate for MTM's using these Anarchy 7" woofers. I have attached a screenshot from Unibox if you don't mind taking a look at to make sure I'm on the right track volume/ tuning frequency. Also, since this build is not likely to take place until next year, what is the long term availability of these Anarchy woofers?

                                Best Regards,
                                Rich
                                Attached Files

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