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Speaker break in - is it real?

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  • craigk
    replied
    Me either, but both are real and very easy to make happen. Get on YouTube and you can see it inaction. Caps vibrate, a lot. resistors are pretty boring. Actually you can make inductors sing too, I just have never tried to..

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  • PWR RYD
    replied
    Yes of course Bill I meant to type "moot". I was in a hurry.

    CraigK my friend, I am not trying to start a pissing match with you, but I have never heard a capacitor sing or felt one vibrate (you know my background in high power VFDs). I would say if you have it was either a faulty component or a part that was being operated way beyond its specifications.

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  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
    Or moot. Go to some of the more whacky audio websites and you'll find plenty of claims that caps, coils, resistors and even wire have break-in. There's never any supporting data, of course, but that doesn't faze the Golden Ears crowd.
    But Bill, what about all the careful before-and-after measurements? Oh wait. Those don't ever exist

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  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
    Capacitors, inductors, and resistors don't have moving soft parts so IMHO that whole break in discussion is mute.
    Or moot. Go to some of the more whacky audio websites and you'll find plenty of claims that caps, coils, resistors and even wire have break-in. There's never any supporting data, of course, but that doesn't faze the Golden Ears crowd.

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  • craigk
    replied
    Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
    Why do some people only focus on the change in T/S parameters when discussing driver break in? Of course those change, but why be so one dimensional only focasing on bass performance( F3 for example)? Obviously other aspects of driver performance change with break in as well. They all have soft moving parts (even tweeters do). Capacitors, inductors, and resistors don't have moving soft parts so IMHO that whole break in discussion is mute.
    You have never heard a cap sing or felt one vibrate ? Apparently there is something moving ...

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  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
    Why do some people only focus on the change in T/S parameters when discussing driver break in? Of course those change, but why be so one dimensional only focasing on bass performance( F3 for example)? Obviously other aspects of driver performance change with break in as well. They all have soft moving parts (even tweeters do). Capacitors, inductors, and resistors don't have moving soft parts so IMHO that whole break in discussion is mute.
    T/S parameters are easily measured and compared. I have no doubt you're right that a lot of things change as time goes on.

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  • PWR RYD
    replied
    Why do some people only focus on the change in T/S parameters when discussing driver break in? Of course those change, but why be so one dimensional only focasing on bass performance( F3 for example)? Obviously other aspects of driver performance change with break in as well. They all have soft moving parts (even tweeters do). Capacitors, inductors, and resistors don't have moving soft parts so IMHO that whole break in discussion is mute.

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  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    How does one tell the difference?

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  • fpitas
    replied
    Some use 1/3 octave noise centered on Fs, some use Napalm Death

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  • guitar maestro
    replied
    Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
    True. Drivers with soft rubber or foam surrounds tend not to change as much as those with stiff cloth surrounds, like pro-sound woofers. I usually see those drop Fs by about 10% after break in. Whether you can hear that is not likely, unless you have two identical speakers side by side, one broken in and one not, to make an instant comparison. Speakers do tend to sound subjectively better over time because you get used to them. That's half the reason why some brands claim to need silly long break-in periods. The other half is to convince you to keep them beyond the return period. It should be needless to say that those brands should be avoided, but they also tend to be at the upper end of the price spectrum, and everybody knows that the higher the price the better they'll sound...
    That's why brand new speakers should be immediately tortured/punished/tormented with unrelentingly brutal music the likes of Napalm Death at ear-splitting levels Not only will you find out if you have robust speakers, it will break them in FAST 100hrs of use condensed into about 1 hr

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  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    True. Drivers with soft rubber or foam surrounds tend not to change as much as those with stiff cloth surrounds, like pro-sound woofers. I usually see those drop Fs by about 10% after break in. Whether you can hear that is not likely, unless you have two identical speakers side by side, one broken in and one not, to make an instant comparison. Speakers do tend to sound subjectively better over time because you get used to them. That's half the reason why some brands claim to need silly long break-in periods. The other half is to convince you to keep them beyond the return period. It should be needless to say that those brands should be avoided, but they also tend to be at the upper end of the price spectrum, and everybody knows that the higher the price the better they'll sound...

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  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by Geoff Millar View Post
    I honestly don't know one way or the other and don't have measuring equipment to help me out.

    I've finished four DIY builds, have used those speakers for some time and can't say whether they sound better or even different than when first fired up.

    However, I'm not at all worried about this as I just enjoy the sound. I'm happy for people with better hearing, more experience and measuring gear to work out these sorts of issues.

    Geoff
    I've seen lots of measured data, some from people involved in the factory QC of speakers (Ken Kantor). It's real enough. Whether you'll hear it? It does vary from driver to driver how much change there is. Some drivers are quite stiff from the production line, some not so much.

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  • Geoff Millar
    replied
    I honestly don't know one way or the other and don't have measuring equipment to help me out.

    I've finished four DIY builds, have used those speakers for some time and can't say whether they sound better or even different than when first fired up.

    However, I'm not at all worried about this as I just enjoy the sound. I'm happy for people with better hearing, more experience and measuring gear to work out these sorts of issues.

    Geoff

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  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    AFA woofers go, typically the suspension (surround and spider) come from the factory a bit "tight" (stiff). As they get exercised, they soften up, changing the T/S parms a bit (but most often in a "complimentay" way, so as not to adversely effect your box model, TOO much).

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  • AEIOU
    replied
    Is it real? YES.

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