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Battle of the 10" monster Midbasses

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  • Battle of the 10" monster Midbasses

    Round 1 of the war of the monster 10" Midbasses

    Ciare NDH 10-3's
    vs
    Faital Pro 10FH520's
    vs
    Faital Pro 10FH530's
    vs
    Faital Pro 10HP1020's
    vs
    Eighteen Sound 10NW750's

    (plus in the future: vs B&C 10PLB76's vs Beyma 10MC700ND's).

    The theme here is minimum 3" voice coils, minimum 400W RMS/AES power handling, most with flux demodulating rings, ~4-6mm Xmax. This is Texas, go big or go home (except for pricing, lol, looking to stay under $300 per driver limit). Hoping for good low-distortion performance. Intended frequency range use is about 150-200Hz on the low-end, and 1.0-1.5kHz on the top end.




    On-Axis Frequency Response - 2.83V, 1 meter, in-room, including reflections


    Ciare NDH 10-3




    Faital Pro 10FH530


    Faital Pro 10FH520





    Faital Pro 10HP1020




    Eighteen Sound 10NW750









    All Drivers superimposed.




    As expected from the FR graphs, the 10HP1020 is the "dullest" and the NDH10-3 is the "brightest" sounding. The funny thing is, all the Faital's and the 18 Sound drivers have demodulating rings in the motors, and Ciare says that the NDH10-3 does not have any kind of shorting/demodulating rings in the motor!.


    Individual driver distortion performances. SPL levels at the specified 105-107 dB are @ 1m on-axis.

    Ciare NDH10-3








    Faital Pro 10FH530







    Faital Pro 10FH520





    Faital Pro 10HP1020






    Eighteen Sound 10NW750






    This last graph shows the THD of the 5 above midbasses superimposed into one chart, with the very last one being windowed from 80Hz-10kHz, from 0 to 4 % THD.





    Next time I'll do some CSD plots and polar response plots. Maybe with some more midbasses.


    Here is a ZIP file with all the data thus far.

    Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip
    Last edited by guitar maestro; 06-18-2018, 10:19 PM.

  • #2
    That Ciare is one hell of a driver! For me it would be a toss up between it and the 18Sound, but ultimately I would use the Ciare for such a controlled response and HD profile.
    "I just use off the shelf textbook filters designed for a resistor of 8 ohms with
    exactly a Fc 3K for both drivers, anybody can do it." -Xmax

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree! I was surprised the Faital's didn't do better. For that Ciare to do as well as it did without shorting rings says a lot about how well engineered that motor is. Needless to say I know which ones will be going up for sale. Also I wasn't expecting the 18 Sound 10NW750 to do as well as it did.

      Comment


      • #4
        Very very informative. Thank you for sharing all of your info and for putting it together in an easily comparable format. I agree that the Ciare looks very smooth.

        Comment


        • #5
          Are you sure the Ciare doesn't use any shorting rings? Ciare may not list it as a feature but still might have it.
          As for the 18 Sound, from everything that I have seen from them I would put most 18 Sound components a notch above Faital. I went with B&C and have no regrets but if I had to start over now I would probably go with 18 Sound or maybe BMS depending on the application.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 300Z View Post
            Are you sure the Ciare doesn't use any shorting rings? Ciare may not list it as a feature but still might have it.
            As for the 18 Sound, from everything that I have seen from them I would put most 18 Sound components a notch above Faital. I went with B&C and have no regrets but if I had to start over now I would probably go with 18 Sound or maybe BMS depending on the application.
            That's what the email from Ciare says, so I dunno.

            BMS doesn't Iist any 10" midbass drivers unfortunately.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, sadly BMS doesn't make any 10" but their stuff is top notch.

              Comment


              • #8
                The reply I got from Ciare was from the Sales dept, so they could be wrong, LOL




                I agree on the BMS stuff. Looks 1st tier. I added individual FR graphs and a zip file with all data in the 1st post.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think I heard somewhere that B&C acquired 18Sound.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yep, 18Sound and Ciare are both under B&C ownership now.

                    http://www.audioxpress.com/news/b-c-...eighteen-sound
                    "I just use off the shelf textbook filters designed for a resistor of 8 ohms with
                    exactly a Fc 3K for both drivers, anybody can do it." -Xmax

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What Ciare is NOT telling you is that Neo motors are inherently lower HD, and act as an inherent shorting ring. This is even though there may not be an actual usage-specific shorting ring in the motor.

                      I'm with you guys- that Ciare looks like a nice driver!
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        What Ciare is NOT telling you is that Neo motors are inherently lower HD, and act as an inherent shorting ring. This is even though there may not be an actual usage-specific shorting ring in the motor.

                        I'm with you guys- that Ciare looks like a nice driver!
                        Wolf
                        That is interesting, because the Faital 10FH520's, 10FH530's, and the Eighteen Sound 10NW750 are all neo motors with additional aluminum shorting rings, yet the Ciare without a dedicated one shows a hint less THD. Unless it has to do with the fact that the Ciare is the only one with an outside, single-slug neo motor. Either way, sure looks nice. I wonder why they put so much adhesive at the triple joint though. Seems like half a tube of JB weld, lol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Use just enough to get a specific moving mass perhaps?

                          Just have a look at the impedance curve for the Ciare. No sharp inductive rise and a mid band inductance of only .4mH. Impressive for no additional copper.

                          Consider adding the Eminence Deltalite II 2510 to the mix.
                          https://www.parts-express.com/eminen...river--290-591

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	ciare-10ndh3-freq-size475.gif Views:	1 Size:	37.7 KB ID:	1379576
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Due to the thick front-plate, I'm wondering if the Ciare is underhung as well.

                            Later,
                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                            *InDIYana event website*

                            Photobucket pages:
                            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post
                              Use just enough to get a specific moving mass perhaps?

                              Just have a look at the impedance curve for the Ciare. No sharp inductive rise and a mid band inductance of only .4mH. Impressive for no additional copper.

                              Consider adding the Eminence Deltalite II 2510 to the mix.
                              https://www.parts-express.com/eminen...river--290-591

                              Click image for larger version Name:	ciare-10ndh3-freq-size475.gif Views:	1 Size:	37.7 KB ID:	1379576
                              Sorry, but Eminence doesn't make the cut of beef here. Only Waygu or Akaushi at worst, no Prime or anything lower, lol. Looking for 400W RMS minimum and 3" coil :D

                              On my DATS V2, it shows about 1mH of inductance @ 1kHz, and 0.37mH @ 10k. Perhaps they are stating the 10k inductance? The product sheet doesn't specify.




                              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                              Due to the thick front-plate, I'm wondering if the Ciare is underhung as well.

                              Later,
                              Wolf
                              Definitely not underhung. Can't see it from the angle in that picture, but the basket is ventilated under the spider, and you can see the coil windings through the vents.

                              Comment

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