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Your all time favorite commercially made loudspeakers

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  • #31
    Originally posted by cap View Post
    whats the point of this thread as most hear and in the DIY comunity will say they can design better and that the HIGH end manufactures are trying to fool you with inferior products !
    Well, this is among other things a forum for speakers. Nothing wrong with giving props to good commercial examples..
    Francis

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    • #32
      ELAC Debut F5
      BOSE F1 812

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      • #33
        Originally posted by fpitas View Post

        Well, this is among other things a forum for speakers. Nothing wrong with giving props to good commercial examples..
        Not dismissing commercial builds ..I have a few Commercial esoteric designs ..along with my own which I try to build to better them. Its not cheap to do a DIY that will compete ! You cant just use MDF and $20 CAPS and $30 mids and a $20 tweeter.. Cabinet and X over cost alone on my last build was over a $1500 PARTS.. not labor and time or drivers ! On drivers you get what you pay for. Good drivers are not cheap and are simple to use as they play their pass band without needing 25 parts in a x over. Thus allowing you to use Foil inductors and Mundorf caps and 1% resistors.. Silver internal wiring ..

        I appreciate all the mom and pop builds that are for college kids or garages.. I just cant see spending two to three months on a cabinet to use a 20 driver for a competition or a attempt to see if you can build a Rolex at a Timex cost ! My time is to valuable and IF I cant equal or better my commercials I wont do it !

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        • #34
          Originally posted by cap View Post

          Not dismissing commercial builds ..I have a few Commercial esoteric designs ..along with my own which I try to build to better them. Its not cheap to do a DIY that will compete ! You cant just use MDF and $20 CAPS and $30 mids and a $20 tweeter.. Cabinet and X over cost alone on my last build was over a $1500 PARTS.. not labor and time or drivers ! On drivers you get what you pay for. Good drivers are not cheap and are simple to use as they play their pass band without needing 25 parts in a x over. Thus allowing you to use Foil inductors and Mundorf caps and 1% resistors.. Silver internal wiring ..

          I appreciate all the mom and pop builds that are for college kids or garages.. I just cant see spending two to three months on a cabinet to use a 20 driver for a competition or a attempt to see if you can build a Rolex at a Timex cost ! My time is to valuable and IF I cant equal or better my commercials I wont do it !
          Sure, I hear you. I could design and build my own amps, but I get enough of that kind of thing at work, so I don't. And although I DIY speakers, I like to look at good commercial speakers to get some idea of what I really want, and perhaps clues as to how I get there. Frankly, it's also kind of nice just listening to a speaker sometimes, and not analyzing what I'm hearing lol.
          Francis

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          • #35
            Originally posted by cap View Post

            Not dismissing commercial builds ..I have a few Commercial esoteric designs ..along with my own which I try to build to better them. Its not cheap to do a DIY that will compete ! You cant just use MDF and $20 CAPS and $30 mids and a $20 tweeter.. Cabinet and X over cost alone on my last build was over a $1500 PARTS.. not labor and time or drivers ! On drivers you get what you pay for. Good drivers are not cheap and are simple to use as they play their pass band without needing 25 parts in a x over. Thus allowing you to use Foil inductors and Mundorf caps and 1% resistors.. Silver internal wiring ..

            I appreciate all the mom and pop builds that are for college kids or garages.. I just cant see spending two to three months on a cabinet to use a 20 driver for a competition or a attempt to see if you can build a Rolex at a Timex cost ! My time is to valuable and IF I cant equal or better my commercials I wont do it !
            We all DIY for our own reasons, and while I disagree 100% with not only the sentiment, the serious amount of BS you spout about cost/quality and crossover components (oh my, thank you for the laugh this morning) but also the manner you deliver it, I will defend your right to be a judgmental a$$ who clearly has no grasp of what DIY is actually about. Any competent DIY'er knows what they are doing and what to expect - but more importantly, the competent DIY'ers will understand where we lose out to commercial companies. It appears you may be a wee bit away from understanding both aspects. It takes time - but to use my favorite analogy, a five year old Camaro and $10,000 in go-fast goodies will beat living hell out of *any* production sports car - provided the tuner knows what he is doing. Really, what most people like you are doing is competing on an aesthetic level with commercial guys while trying to rationalize it. Me? I'll take a $30,000 modified rear wheel drive muscle car properly tuned. I leave the underperforming overpriced pretty sheetmetal to people who only pretend they are interested in performance. I hear a lot of those cars spend their days in garages - maybe they can listen to some of these Timex speakers the rest of us are building.
            Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post

              We all DIY for our own reasons, and while I disagree 100% with not only the sentiment, the serious amount of BS you spout about cost/quality and crossover components (oh my, thank you for the laugh this morning) but also the manner you deliver it, I will defend your right to be a judgmental a$$ who clearly has no grasp of what DIY is actually about. Any competent DIY'er knows what they are doing and what to expect - but more importantly, the competent DIY'ers will understand where we lose out to commercial companies. It appears you may be a wee bit away from understanding both aspects. It takes time - but to use my favorite analogy, a five year old Camaro and $10,000 in go-fast goodies will beat living hell out of *any* production sports car - provided the tuner knows what he is doing. Really, what most people like you are doing is competing on an aesthetic level with commercial guys while trying to rationalize it. Me? I'll take a $30,000 modified rear wheel drive muscle car properly tuned. I leave the underperforming overpriced pretty sheetmetal to people who only pretend they are interested in performance. I hear a lot of those cars spend their days in garages - maybe they can listen to some of these Timex speakers the rest of us are building.
              You are entitled to your opinion. As Anyone else is.. I see more people go cheap than try to build at a level of high standards. Its not a jab or insult. I get it ,many just cant afford to go that way. But those are the exact ones who beat the sh!t out of anyone who does or a major manufacture who does. If you believe $20 drivers and $5 caps get you what you want then Caveat Emptor

              Forget the Muscle car, Take a 7000 lb Duramax and make it do 11 and talk to me !

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              • #37
                Originally posted by cap View Post

                If you believe $20 drivers and $5 caps get you what you want then Caveat Emptor
                The only people I've found so far that can hear the difference seem to need to see the difference first.

                And I don't think you're using "caveat emptor" properly.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by philthien View Post

                  The only people I've found so far that can hear the difference seem to need to see the difference first.

                  And I don't think you're using "caveat emptor" properly.
                  it is used correctly.
                  craigk

                  " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post

                    We all DIY for our own reasons, and while I disagree 100% with not only the sentiment, the serious amount of BS you spout about cost/quality and crossover components (oh my, thank you for the laugh this morning) but also the manner you deliver it, I will defend your right to be a judgmental a$$ who clearly has no grasp of what DIY is actually about. Any competent DIY'er knows what they are doing and what to expect - but more importantly, the competent DIY'ers will understand where we lose out to commercial companies. It appears you may be a wee bit away from understanding both aspects. It takes time - but to use my favorite analogy, a five year old Camaro and $10,000 in go-fast goodies will beat living hell out of *any* production sports car - provided the tuner knows what he is doing. Really, what most people like you are doing is competing on an aesthetic level with commercial guys while trying to rationalize it. Me? I'll take a $30,000 modified rear wheel drive muscle car properly tuned. I leave the underperforming overpriced pretty sheetmetal to people who only pretend they are interested in performance. I hear a lot of those cars spend their days in garages - maybe they can listen to some of these Timex speakers the rest of us are building.
                    talk about a good laugh after reading a post, really you should look into stand up comedy after this post. i did not realize that you where the designated spokes person for the DIY community. i have not been introduced to many of the competent DIY'ers you mentioned, because the conversations that i hear at DIY events, well there are a lot of very basic questions being answered incorrectly. Considering your car analogy, after the conversation you had with a mutual acquaintance about fuel injection, well apparently you " may be a wee bit away from understanding " that means you have a lack of grasp, about modified cars also. you might want to stay away from car analogies until you become more competent in that field. i also will also defend your right to be an a$$, just because you are so good at it, and you make everyone laugh. looking forward to the next Rol "f" ex speaker build.
                    craigk

                    " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                    • #40
                      Come on I started this thread because I am curious as to what Commercial loudspeakers people thought were either great looking or sounding or both mainly because MANY designs really inspire or make you think...gee I may not be able to make a clone of this speaker but I think I could come close ......And not to start arguments so as the "Beatles" song goes ...."Let it be"

                      Steve -

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                      • #41
                        You might want to stay away from commas.
                        Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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                        • #42
                          that meet your approval ?

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                          • #43
                            In all fairness, it is fun for fanboys to pick on DIY'ers - but the sheer amount of snake oil, mis and disinformation, and outright lies spread by the commercial audio world should give them some sense of shame - but it doesn't. If a DIY'er pulled half the sh!t a lot of people in the high end pulled, they would be run out of town on a rail - and the fanboys would be right up front with the tar brushes and feathers.

                            Sorry Craig, not sure about the fuel injection comment, or even what it means. It took me a few readthroughs to decipher your post, and at first I suspected a TIA event (not sure if on your end or mine, but I do imagine you nearing apoplectic seizure territory at times, man some of your posts drip with rage - remember all those people on Facebook you went full attack mode on?) - but it turns out the grammar was to blame. I am sure you will, as is your MO, go back and edit it later (such a pity that you have such a habit of engaging in that type of disingenuous behavior).

                            So yeah, favorite commercial speakers on my end are usually mid-tier priced or those that turn out to have been designed using actual engineering principles - it is no surprise I generally prefer those from the Harman group. Obviously, their approach denies the magic and snake oil that permeates loudspeaker design at the high end - so I don't expect the fanboys to actually embrace the science. They have too much at stake.
                            Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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                            • #44
                              sdep - your comma usage is fine.
                              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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                              • #45
                                [QUOTE=johnnyrichards;n1380859
                                So yeah, favorite commercial speakers on my end are usually mid-tier priced or those that turn out to have been designed using actual engineering principles - it is no surprise I generally prefer those from the Harman group. Obviously, their approach denies the magic and snake oil that permeates loudspeaker design at the high end - so I don't expect the fanboys to actually embrace the science. They have too much at stake. [/QUOTE]

                                Both my faves are Harman group, Revel and JBL. I've heard them both at length in a good listening environment. I suppose they just happen to agree with what I think a loudspeaker should sound like.

                                Francis

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