Announcement

Collapse

Midwest Audio Fest

It’s that time audio enthusiasts! Registration for the 2019 Speaker Design Competition is now open! Visit midwestaudiofest.com for details and to list your speaker project. We are excited to see all returning participants, and look forward to meeting some new designers this year, as well! Be sure your plans include a visit to the Parts Express Tent Sale for the lowest prices of the year, and the Audio Swap Meet where you can buy and trade with other audio fans. We hope to see you this summer! Vivian and Jill
See more
See less

Your all time favorite commercially made loudspeakers

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
    In all fairness, it is fun for fanboys to pick on DIY'ers - but the sheer amount of snake oil, mis and disinformation, and outright lies spread by the commercial audio world should give them some sense of shame - but it doesn't. If a DIY'er pulled half the sh!t a lot of people in the high end pulled, they would be run out of town on a rail - and the fanboys would be right up front with the tar brushes and feathers.

    Sorry Craig, not sure about the fuel injection comment, or even what it means. It took me a few readthroughs to decipher your post, and at first I suspected a TIA event (not sure if on your end or mine, but I do imagine you nearing apoplectic seizure territory at times, man some of your posts drip with rage - remember all those people on Facebook you went full attack mode on?) - but it turns out the grammar was to blame. I am sure you will, as is your MO, go back and edit it later (such a pity that you have such a habit of engaging in that type of disingenuous behavior).

    So yeah, favorite commercial speakers on my end are usually mid-tier priced or those that turn out to have been designed using actual engineering principles - it is no surprise I generally prefer those from the Harman group. Obviously, their approach denies the magic and snake oil that permeates loudspeaker design at the high end - so I don't expect the fanboys to actually embrace the science. They have too much at stake.
    You spoke to Matt Sobie about fuelinjection for your truck.
    craigk

    " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

    Comment


    • #47
      Micropure Kotaro and Davis audio. Micropure is out of business, but not horrible price for handmade cabs and great drivers. Davis makes some nice 2 ways with a no nonsense approach. Also lime the Sony line with Scans, here are some speakers I think you could DIY, or get close enough to stick $ 20 K in your pocket when finished.
      craigk

      " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
        So yeah, favorite commercial speakers on my end are usually mid-tier priced or those that turn out to have been designed using actual engineering principles - it is no surprise I generally prefer those from the Harman group. Obviously, their approach denies the magic and snake oil that permeates loudspeaker design at the high end - .

        That explains a lot !
        Their are no fan boys just opinions and if those do not agree with yours apparently they are insulted and demeaned.. That's why DIY gets a bad rap ...

        I apologize to the OP for going off topic ! My buddy has Revel Salon Ultima and they are very neutral and sound nice! Tad recessed with his tubes. I prefer them with SS ..Having owned many simple to Esoteric there is no one speaker that does it all. Room plays a huge part as well as front end !

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
          In all fairness, it is fun for fanboys to pick on DIY'ers - but the sheer amount of snake oil, mis and disinformation, and outright lies spread by the commercial audio world should give them some sense of shame - but it doesn't. If a DIY'er pulled half the sh!t a lot of people in the high end pulled, they would be run out of town on a rail - and the fanboys would be right up front with the tar brushes and feathers.

          Sorry Craig, not sure about the fuel injection comment, or even what it means. It took me a few readthroughs to decipher your post, and at first I suspected a TIA event (not sure if on your end or mine, but I do imagine you nearing apoplectic seizure territory at times, man some of your posts drip with rage - remember all those people on Facebook you went full attack mode on?) - but it turns out the grammar was to blame. I am sure you will, as is your MO, go back and edit it later (such a pity that you have such a habit of engaging in that type of disingenuous behavior).

          So yeah, favorite commercial speakers on my end are usually mid-tier priced or those that turn out to have been designed using actual engineering principles - it is no surprise I generally prefer those from the Harman group. Obviously, their approach denies the magic and snake oil that permeates loudspeaker design at the high end - so I don't expect the fanboys to actually embrace the science. They have too much at stake.
          What a drama queen. You are hilarious. Everyone will just keep laughing at you. Keep up the post.
          craigk

          " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

          Comment


          • #50
            Prove your points with blind A/B tests, I'm sure that the fanboys will be surprised.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by cap View Post
              whats the point of this thread as most hear and in the DIY comunity will say they can design better and that the HIGH end manufactures are trying to fool you with inferior products !
              Hear! Hear!

              Comment


              • #52
                I went to AXPONA a few years back. To put it bluntly, most of the speakers were horrible - I distinctly recall a bunch of audiophile "journalists" listening to a 400-pound box of ceramic drivers that sounded....well, exactly what you'd think from a speaker with first-order crossovers and mahoosive driver resonance. (Google suggests it was a Marten Audio Coltrane.) So many bad speakers!

                I would blame it on poor hotel room acoustics, but there were exceptions. The Dynaudio stuff sounded great, and I'm not a big fan of Dynaudio's engineering. The Revel speakers seemed nice. Schumacher's Vapor Audio gear sounded great, and - notably - actually was generating buzz; unlike the grumbly Stereophile types, there were folks who seemed genuinely enthused about it. And Seaton's setup in the basement would blow you to kingdome come.

                If you advise me me to go buy some K&H or Genelec monitors, fine - their engineering is damn near flawless, and they really are all go and no show. But if you want something nice for your living room, there's an awful lot of strangely "voiced" speakers (what happened to Paradigm? Their frequency response is all over the place!), and Infinity stopped building cheap stuff for the poors a few years ago. And lordy forbid you want something away from the mass-market: high efficiency horn speakers are hideously expensive and frequently poorly engineered.

                I like speakers that measure fairly flat and have even directivity. In the immortal words of Seth from Superbad: "Eff me, right?"

                Comment


                • #53
                  Speaking of AXPONA... 2018.
                  PMC had a set of 'Twenty5.23' that were really really nice. Smooth, and plumbed the depths of the bass range. Good Peerless 5.25" fiberglass woofer and Seas 27TBFC/G too...

                  Ryan Audio also had a pair this year that were REALLY well integrated. Spacious and deep soundstage with very dead polymer material cabinets.

                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by craigk View Post

                    it is used correctly.
                    Caveat emptor means "buyer beware." You'd tell a friend about to buy speakers out of the back of a white van, "caveat emptor."

                    It isn't something you'd say to an experienced DIY speaker builder that has had multiple successes using inexpensive drivers and crossover components.

                    Regardless, I'm with Pete on the blind testing.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I like the Mirage M series Bi-polar speakers...I also liked the sound of Apogees, Maggies, Logans and Esl's….I guess that is why I like the sound of DML panels as they have that similar open baffle/bi polar sound but at a fraction of there cost.

                      There is only a small percentage of top tier DIY 'ers that can build speakers that can rival the 50k and over commercially made speakers. The advantage DIYers have is cost.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        Speaking of AXPONA... 2018.
                        PMC had a set of 'Twenty5.23' that were really really nice. Smooth, and plumbed the depths of the bass range. Good Peerless 5.25" fiberglass woofer and Seas 27TBFC/G too...

                        Ryan Audio also had a pair this year that were REALLY well integrated. Spacious and deep soundstage with very dead polymer material cabinets.

                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        I happened on Ryan Audio a couple years ago at Axpona and couldn’t agree more! Even know the line got picked up by a store in Chicago called Superior Audio. I hope they do well!

                        Plenty of really good commercial stuff out there! We just happen to like to DIY! I will also add that I believe we make really good sound for less money and a little sweat equity!

                        Have fun! Mark

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          My thoughts on DIY vs. commercial . . . good one's share the same actual design philosophy. Can some people equal commercially available systems? Of course. Some commercial designs are not built from unobtanium, use pretty standard cabinetry, and don't necessarily have exotic finishes. They're solidly made, well executed designs given the materials at hand. I've done a lot of builds like that and the results can really surprise you. This speaker sounds fantastic and uses about $250 worth of quality drivers and crossovers in each cabinet.

                          But . . . I've had the chance to use the "good stuff" that costs ridiculous money. And when you put those components in ridiculous cabinetry with a well executed crossover using ridiculous crossover components, there's an immediacy to the result that is unmistakable, especially when going back and listening to the merely fantastic. You can hear the difference with drivers costing 10x what is pictured below. It's not wasted money, especially if what you're really after is the best YOU can do.

                          When a DIY'er is confident enough with his ability, doing something "high end" has to be on their mind. Spending lots of money is something most people don't do lightly and you want to realize a successful result. If you're going to spend a hundred hours building beautiful and functional enclosures, why not put the best stuff in there?

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	speakers for mom.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	143.6 KB
ID:	1380896
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Speakers to many are like Scotch to me, I am admittedly biased. All good. I am a fan of Scotch, and will be the first to admit I am swayed by price tags, labels, etc. It is real to me. Take my sight away? No thanks - I enjoy me delusions. Speakers are obviously different...

                            Look, if so many high end designs/electronics didn't sound like crap and so many giants of the industry were not so dismissive of the bullsh!t puked out by charlatans and their fanboys - I might be more inclined to swallow the pill. That people will dismiss stuff Roger Russel or Ken Kantor say... Lmfao.



                            ​​​​​​
                            Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by cap View Post


                              That explains a lot !
                              Their are no fan boys just opinions and if those do not agree with yours apparently they are insulted and demeaned.. That's why DIY gets a bad rap!
                              Says the guy making condescending remarks about enjoying all the garage builds lmfao!

                              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                And anyone who feels there are no fanboys, isn't paying attention. We are, to a man, subject to biases that absolutely clouds our judgement. Kudos to a very few brave people who recognize that and engage in unsighted testing. They generally come out of it not sounding like the high end fellators around here.

                                That's none of my business, though.

                                I actually take issue with the pieces of sh!t who imply that DIYers are wannabes wasting their time - and there are a lot of them in this thread. Perhaps more than people realize.

                                Now, if any of the fanboys here want to do a blind test of their favourite little piece of veneer wrapped indulgence - I can host it in 2019.



                                Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X