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2 way speaker with tangband w6-1139

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  • Scarface1
    started a topic 2 way speaker with tangband w6-1139

    2 way speaker with tangband w6-1139

    Hi, i have an w6-1139 sub lying around that i don't use. So my tought was to build a 2 way tower because it is less difficult than a 3 way tower. I search for a speaker that is full-range and with deccent highs. I came up with this speaker...

    https://www.parts-express.com/tang-b...8-ohm--264-956

    I want to crossover it at 150 hz but don't know if i put it sealed or vented because sealed will lower sensitivity by 3db wich maybe is a good thing because the sensitivity is 87db( subwoofer is 85 db)

    Both drivers have a fall of about 150 hz maybe this is something to do with in the crossover design

  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    You wrote "polarity off the PR"
    IF you meant "polarity OF the FR (full-range, you know, the W3).

    Not sure on FR polarity ("normal" or reverse). I'd try it both ways listening to the speaker (a single speaker) lying on its side and playing content strong in the overlap region (100-1000Hz).
    I THINK the W3 will end up reverse, but go with whatever sounds best in the above test. If you play a test tone near 300Hz, you want the "image" to remain stable as you move, say a foot or 2, left - then right of "center"; not one that "bounces" back and forth. Also you MIGHT hear a 300Hz tone reduced in volume when the phase is "wrong".


    You should really read a good book, like "SpeakerBuilding 201" so you can grasp some of the more basic concepts.
    Yes, drivers ARE marked w/ "+" and "-", BUT . . . that doesn't mean they always get (or should get) hooked up that way. On a LOT of 2-ways, the wires coming off the "end" of the XO often get hooked the way you'd think to the woofer, but often on the tweeter (the "FR" in YOUR case) they get hooked up the OPPOsite way - with what you'd call the "+" wire going to the tweeter's "-" term., and vice versa.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarface1
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
    I like your woofer box, but I'd probably go larger (up to 2L) for the FR (with stuffing).

    Here's an XO for you (you can always write it down and hide it until you do one yourself - I can NOT explain how to do it).
    It's described the way you see most of them laid out in a schematic here on TT, Left > to > Right is Amp > to > drivers:

    W6 LP - 2nd order w/Zobel: a series (Dayton) iron core 4.0mH coil, followed by 2 (shunt) legs to ground; a 50uF (npe) cap on one, and a Zobel (100uF npe cap w/a 4ohm 10w resistor) for the other.
    The W3 is an HP filter w/an L-pad, but also uses a small coil to help control the rising top end:
    A series 33uF (npe) cap, followed by a (Dayton) 8.0mH iron core coil to ground (in "shunt"), followed by a tiny (#20) 0.15mH series coil followed by the L-pad consisting of a 6ohm SR (series resistor) and an 8ohm PR. The L-pad resistors COULD be 5w?

    System sensitivity is around 78dB (2k-3k) +/-2dB, w/about +5dB baffle-step (your woofer shouldn't be too far below your FR - which should end up near seated ear level) and a top end that rises about +4dB between about 3-4k and 15kHz (should help alleviate beaming issues of using a 3" for a tweeter).
    With the W3's Pe rating of 12w RMS, that puts you at 89dB in the midrange.
    Fc pretty darn near 300Hz. Zmin drops down to 3.1 ohms right near 100 cycles. If it wasn't for the range between 60-200Hz, it would be considered a nominal 8 ohms.
    Should NOT be any trouble for any amp that's happy running 4 ohms.

    Not sure on FR polarity ("normal" or reverse). I'd try it both ways listening to the speaker (a single speaker) lying on its side and playing content strong in the overlap region (100-1000Hz).
    I THINK the W3 will end up reverse, but go with whatever sounds best in the above test. If you play a test tone near 300Hz, you want the "image" to remain stable as you move, say a foot or 2, left - then right of "center"; not one that "bounces" back and forth. Also you MIGHT hear a 300Hz tone reduced in volume when the phase is "wrong".
    Hi criss, thanks for the info. Tomorrow i try to make a sketch off the filters you gave me but i don't know what you mean by polarity off the PR( do you mean + and - , because doesn't that been writing on the speaker).

    Also because i use 2 speakers( 2 way ) does this mean i have to give the speaker 100 watt instead off the 50 watt ( 50 watt each speaker )

    Edit: " With the W3's Pe rating of 12w RMS, that puts you at 89dB in the midrange." why 12 watt? Shouln't it be 50 watt just like the subwoofer to match sub SPL( most off the 50 watt will not go tru the speaker because off the highpass filter)​​​
    Last edited by Scarface1; 08-12-2018, 12:05 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jlm
    replied
    Sorry to high jack this thread.
    I am also Looking to make similar setup using Paul's Isetta Design.
    I Love the size and performance range of the thing.
    I am planning to do a slightly different build (same volumes though) to fit in a TV cabinet no more then 7" high but it is deep.
    Downward firing sub and removable front speakers.See attached model snap shots.

    I want to use this to play music as well as tv speakers (as my the current TV speakers are killing me). I may put the sub on its side next to the TV

    I am thinking of using the Peerless by Tymphany SDS-135F25CP02-04 5-1/4" Paper Cone Woofer for a sub instead of the TB.
    Any recommendations if the performance is ok?
    As the Tang Band W5-1138SMF are $43 and out of stock.

    For the 2.1 Amp. Thinking of using this bad boy.
    2.1 Hi-Fi Class D Audio Amplifier Board 2 x 15W + 30W 10-18 VDC
    Cheap as chips but good performance? I would then by a cheap Bluetooth dongle to intergrate.

    or would this amp be better?
    TPS3116D2 Class D 2.1 Bluetooth 4.0 Amplifier Board 2 x 50W + 100W with Filter and Volume Controls

    Also, any comments on Hivi B3N's (using Zaph's design) vs the Fountek FE85?.. not sure on the if the FE85 sounds like tin at high freq?

    Love any feedback on this one.
    My Aim !!... to make it cheap as chips but perform like a Rolls Royce... is isn't that why we are all here :-)

    Justin
    Click image for larger version  Name:	Isetta - Together.png Views:	2 Size:	182.1 KB ID:	1384911Click image for larger version  Name:	Isetta - Apart.png Views:	2 Size:	157.6 KB ID:	1384912Click image for larger version  Name:	Isetta - Apart 2.png Views:	2 Size:	131.7 KB ID:	1384913

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    I like your woofer box, but I'd probably go larger (up to 2L) for the FR (with stuffing).

    Here's an XO for you (you can always write it down and hide it until you do one yourself - I can NOT explain how to do it).
    It's described the way you see most of them laid out in a schematic here on TT, Left > to > Right is Amp > to > drivers:

    W6 LP - 2nd order w/Zobel: a series (Dayton) iron core 4.0mH coil, followed by 2 (shunt) legs to ground; a 50uF (npe) cap on one, and a Zobel (100uF npe cap w/a 4ohm 10w resistor) for the other.
    The W3 is an HP filter w/an L-pad, but also uses a small coil to help control the rising top end:
    A series 33uF (npe) cap, followed by a (Dayton) 8.0mH iron core coil to ground (in "shunt"), followed by a tiny (#20) 0.15mH series coil followed by the L-pad consisting of a 6ohm SR (series resistor) and an 8ohm PR. The L-pad resistors COULD be 5w?

    System sensitivity is around 78dB (2k-3k) +/-2dB, w/about +5dB baffle-step (your woofer shouldn't be too far below your FR - which should end up near seated ear level) and a top end that rises about +4dB between about 3-4k and 15kHz (should help alleviate beaming issues of using a 3" for a tweeter).
    With the W3's Pe rating of 12w RMS, that puts you at 89dB in the midrange.
    Fc pretty darn near 300Hz. Zmin drops down to 3.1 ohms right near 100 cycles. If it wasn't for the range between 60-200Hz, it would be considered a nominal 8 ohms.
    Should NOT be any trouble for any amp that's happy running 4 ohms.

    Not sure on FR polarity ("normal" or reverse). I'd try it both ways listening to the speaker (a single speaker) lying on its side and playing content strong in the overlap region (100-1000Hz).
    I THINK the W3 will end up reverse, but go with whatever sounds best in the above test. If you play a test tone near 300Hz, you want the "image" to remain stable as you move, say a foot or 2, left - then right of "center"; not one that "bounces" back and forth. Also you MIGHT hear a 300Hz tone reduced in volume when the phase is "wrong".

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarface1
    replied
    Thanks for the info! To build a 2.1 setup i have to buy a plate amp what cost a lot over here and I really like the zirconium idea. Like i mentioned before i like to make a 2 way instead off a 3 way to make it a little more simple and less expensive.

    My tought was to use the w6-1139SIF tuned to 30 hz in a 25 liter enclosure and to use a w3-2141 in a sealed 0.5 liter enclosure. I want to cross them over at 300 hz. I don't have a pc by hand so use my tablet to calculate some things.

    here is a spl diagram off the speakers. Also i read that if you put a speaker sealed it's spl will decrease by -3. Also the fullrange w3 is a 8ohm and the subwoofer is a 4ohm so i don't know how that works with spl. Can somebody explain a little how to design the cross-over for this.

    Leave a comment:


  • scottsehlin
    replied
    Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post

    Hi scott how did the w6 perform in your zirconium project. The reason why i ask that is because if you look at the spl chart you can see that above 150 hz there is a -5 db decrease. I want the w6 to low pass at 240 hz.
    I was quite happy with it in the Zirconium project. The manufacturer's graph is probably infinite baffle, so in box, the response should be a lot more uniform as a function of frequency. I didn't notice any issues with crossing at 300 Hz and Wolf mentions crossing it even higher. I heard his speakers and thought they came out quite well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf
    replied
    Chuffing is a function of port diameter, not tuning or box size.

    I used the 70W plate with mine when I did a separate sub, and left the housing attached. It does not have to be if it takes up too much volume, but either way should be fine.

    Later,
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarface1
    replied
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    I've used the 1139 to almost 600Hz in a 3-way tower, but that is its upper limit. It will play to 240Hz.

    Later,
    Wolf
    Hi wolf, will it work tuned to 30hz in a 23 liter box. ( will it avoid chuffing)

    btw, if i put a plate amp in it must it be in a seperate enclosure or can i just screw it on the back off the enclosure

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf
    replied
    I've used the 1139 to almost 600Hz in a 3-way tower, but that is its upper limit. It will play to 240Hz.

    Later,
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    Vented enclosures always (usually?) show a drop in cone excursion near the tuning freq.

    BTW, I had to give that W3 about 40w to match your excursion plot. It's limited to 12w RMS (thermally).

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarface1
    replied
    Originally posted by scottsehlin View Post
    My Zirconium project uses the W6-1139 in a compact 3 way design with the Dayton PS95 and AMT mini8 tweeter providing air and sparkle above 5 kHz. Might be worth a look...
    Hi scott how did the w6 perform in your zirconium project. The reason why i ask that is because if you look at the spl chart you can see that above 150 hz there is a -5 db decrease. I want the w6 to low pass at 240 hz.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarface1
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
    I'd cross to a "full range" around 300, like Scott did.
    Hi criss i have simulated 2 enclosures for the w3 fullrange.

    The red one is vented and the green one is sealed. It's seems that the vented one stays at 2mm but the sealed goes higher. How is this possible.

    By the way i was thinking off playing the subwoofer to 240 hz.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarface1
    replied
    Thanks i had already see them. They look nice and are definitely the way i want to build. But for now I think i will go with a 2.1 amp so i can change the low pass on the subwoofer and i can play with different satelite speakers.

    Leave a comment:


  • scottsehlin
    replied
    My Zirconium project uses the W6-1139 in a compact 3 way design with the Dayton PS95 and AMT mini8 tweeter providing air and sparkle above 5 kHz. Might be worth a look...

    Leave a comment:

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