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Cupcake Speaker Build Help Please

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  • Cupcake Speaker Build Help Please

    Greetings Fellow DIY Junkies-

    Im trying to build a Two way- With the woofer and tweeter in separate box's and the tweeter box will be separated from woofer box by dowels or something. With nice round over edges-

    Driver thus far is a Eminence 8" Paper Cone Professional Woofer 8 Ohm
    Part # 290-4007 with
    Eminence PSD:2013-8 1" Titanium Compression Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2-Bolt
    Part # 290-5602 with an attached
    Eminence APT 200S 90x90 1" Horn Flare 1-3/8"-18 TPI
    Part # 290-557

    Anyway Woofer box will be mid/bass will be aprox 53L Vented, and Tweeter box will be a few inches above it. Anyway for the life of me i cant get a good Xover line in PCD- Yes i know im new and have a lot to learn. Ive spent the last 6 hours on this and and i just gave up.

    Wife loves the idea- Filling bass on the base and creamy sweets on top

    I was hoping to get some help with a "baseline" Xover model. My brain is fried and im about to just say heck with it and try buying a Pre-Made Crossover from PE. Any help would be appreciated. These will Be our LCR so im keeping as much bass as possible or they will produce I am not looking for perfection- Just usable.

  • #2
    No such thing as a "baseline" xover model - it really depends on what parts you're using. Placing the woofer further from the tweeter will also create a lot of problems.

    Can you post what you've got in PCD?

    Comment


    • #3
      I understand- i meant a good starting point. I sort of removed most of it as i spent 6 hours on it and got frustrated. I dont understand 100% the positioning the program does not say what exactly is what lol- I cant get the dip around 750hz to go away i guess if i could get dip to be more flat and drop off of tweeter up more id run with it i even tried VituixCAD but it wont even do anything with FRD and ZMA files lol
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bergarth View Post
        I understand- i meant a good starting point. I sort of removed most of it as i spent 6 hours on it and got frustrated. I dont understand 100% the positioning the program does not say what exactly is what lol- I cant get the dip around 750hz to go away i guess if i could get dip to be more flat and drop off of tweeter up more id run with it i even tried VituixCAD but it wont even do anything with FRD and ZMA files lol
        Look at the drivers frequency graph in it's specification linked on the PE page. The huge depression centered around 750 Hz is the driver's natural response. And by the looks of the graph, trying to compensate for that in the XO and use it at higher frequencies may create problems taming it's break up higher up. One possibility; a 16" x 16" baffle will position the classic "baffle step hump" around 750 Hz. That may help.

        Are you modeling the baffle step responce, loss of SPL in lower frequencies and the hump higher up - mentioned above.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post

          Look at the drivers frequency graph in it's specification linked on the PE page. The huge depression centered around 750 Hz is the driver's natural response. And by the looks of the graph, trying to compensate for that in the XO and use it at higher frequencies may create problems taming it's break up higher up. One possibility; a 16" x 16" baffle will position the classic "baffle step hump" around 750 Hz. That may help.

          Are you modeling the baffle step responce, loss of SPL in lower frequencies and the hump higher up - mentioned above.
          I dont know how to measure for Baffle step- These will be in separate boxes. would you recommend anything further to crossover? seems like not a lot of components Im not chasing a perfect straight line just something i can put in the PCB graphs and order parts lol, I plan on using something like terminal strips to connect everything so perfecting later on is easy and no soldiering to mess with

          Comment


          • #6
            I guess I'd ask why the "pro" drivers? (more costly)
            That horn (tweeter) will need to shed about -12 to -18dB depending on baffle step to match up (volume-wise) w/that woofer. That means you'll be wasting your amp's power to heat up some resistors (and the top octave isn't really "there", like w/a lower output dome, either).
            Nearly 2cu.ft. is a bit large for that driver. I might go 1.5cf max (where you can still get 40Hz out of it). A 2kHz XO might work out OK (absolutely MUST be custom, though).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
              I guess I'd ask why the "pro" drivers? (more costly)
              That horn (tweeter) will need to shed about -12 to -18dB depending on baffle step to match up (volume-wise) w/that woofer. That means you'll be wasting your amp's power to heat up some resistors (and the top octave isn't really "there", like w/a lower output dome, either).
              Nearly 2cu.ft. is a bit large for that driver. I might go 1.5cf max (where you can still get 40Hz out of it). A 2kHz XO might work out OK (absolutely MUST be custom, though).
              Yeah realized its a bit big haha, I wanted the Woofer for sensitivity and power along with ability to get Fs 40HZ. As for the tweeter i wanted a horn for look and sensitivity as its a separate unit from bass module- But i see your logic in the tweeter- ill look into a different one. Ill check out dome tweeters in the AM, Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                We are looking into dome tweeters now- Really like keep something horn related but not a deal breaker- I didnt put two and two togather when i picked a 110DB tweeter with a 90 something db woofer haha ill be more carfull now

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bergarth View Post

                  Yeah realized its a bit big haha, I wanted the Woofer for sensitivity and power along with ability to get Fs 40HZ. As for the tweeter i wanted a horn for look and sensitivity as its a separate unit from bass module- But i see your logic in the tweeter- ill look into a different one. Ill check out dome tweeters in the AM, Thanks
                  You also need to find a different woofer IMHO ( unless you're going to somehow implement a south of 1K crossover point ).

                  Choose a woofer that has at least reasonably flat response to 1500hz .

                  There's really no magic here ( lurking inside these network simulators ), these passive networks can't fully fill in such a wide, deep response hole ( like that eminence has ).

                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    DIYers are putting regular tweeters into small horns. It allows a lower crossover for a given tweeter.

                    For example, Pete Schumacher did a project for DIYSG called the Marksman, which put a now discontinued PE brand tweeter into a small Seos horn. Worth looking at.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EarlK View Post

                      You also need to find a different woofer IMHO ( unless you're going to somehow implement a south of 1K crossover point ).

                      Choose a woofer that has at least reasonably flat response to 1500hz .

                      There's really no magic here ( lurking inside these network simulators ), these passive networks can't fully fill in such a wide, deep response hole ( like that eminence has ).

                      .

                      Trying to find one now- wow what a nightmare

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Several of the PRVs and Faital Pro have a smoother response up high if you limit yourself to pro drivers. RS225 and RS225P area also a good compromise between bass response and smooth top end
                        John H

                        Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jhollander View Post
                          Several of the PRVs and Faital Pro have a smoother response up high if you limit yourself to pro drivers. RS225 and RS225P area also a good compromise between bass response and smooth top end
                          HAHA like minds- Just seen them also The DS215-8

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I swapped drivers that better match Having some fun playing with this but my phase is like looking at 3D garbage....How can i correct this
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bergarth View Post

                              I dont know how to measure for Baffle step-
                              You don't measure it per se'. You incorporate it's effect into your design. You mention PCD, good. Are you running your drivers through response modeler first? That's were you'll change the FR (and impedance) graphs for the drivers based on the baffle dimensions and driver location. You'll also model the woofer's in box response and incorporate that into the new RF and impedance graphs. Then those new graphs go into PCD for the XO design. As others have mentioned, a pre-built XO is like buying a lottery ticket. Very high odds the speaker will sound good.

                              Given what I've read, my recommendation is to search for member designs or retail kits that seem like they fit your criteria. We can estimate if separating the woofer and tweeter into separate boxes is doable or not, sound wise.

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