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What speaker and amps for 10,000 square feet gym (open space) ?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post
    If it's like any other HT receiver though, you don't get full power when running in multi-channel stereo like that though. That shouldn't be an issue for you though with the SPL you are desiring.
    You quoted a very interesting thing that I did not know... as per your experience how much would the loss be?

    The speaker you suggested seems perfect for being placed in the middle of a flat wall, what about a corner? Do they sound good? Maybe I could take 3 of them (central side of the long wall and 2 on the 270 degree corner opposite) and 5 of similar characteristic but different share for having more directioned sound. Could this work?

    In the meantime I got the updated plan with dressing rooms and offices. In order to try to distribute the sound at better, my idea would be to place the speakers as per the picture. I would like to have the speakers to look down at about 30 degrees (could it be fine?).

    The yellow placed at 13 feet, the blue placed at 8 feet.

    My doubt in this case is that the speaker close to the office might create too much noise inside, even if the idea is to insulate office or put double glasses to attenuate the noise..

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Zack_1982 View Post

      You quoted a very interesting thing that I did not know... as per your experience how much would the loss be?

      The speaker you suggested seems perfect for being placed in the middle of a flat wall, what about a corner? Do they sound good? Maybe I could take 3 of them (central side of the long wall and 2 on the 270 degree corner opposite) and 5 of similar characteristic but different share for having more directioned sound. Could this work?

      In the meantime I got the updated plan with dressing rooms and offices. In order to try to distribute the sound at better, my idea would be to place the speakers as per the picture. I would like to have the speakers to look down at about 30 degrees (could it be fine?).

      The yellow placed at 13 feet, the blue placed at 8 feet.

      My doubt in this case is that the speaker close to the office might create too much noise inside, even if the idea is to insulate office or put double glasses to attenuate the noise..
      Zack -- I'd be lying if I told you I knew. You'd have to contact the receiver company and find out the actual specs on the output with all channels driven. It's usually much less than the two (2) channels driven number they always quote. I personally don't see any issue placing these in a corner, but then again I'm not claiming to be an acoustical engineer. I can tell you that the set I have are under the eve on the roof of my garage and they sound fantastic. Judging by your illustration (nice work by the way) and shooting from the hip, I'd say six (6) speakers should cover that area nicely.

      "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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      • #33
        I think it is a mistake to not have zone volume control also if you use a relatively inexpensive 6 zone speaker selector w/volume control it negates the impedence issue so you could run 12 speakers ,6 stereo pairs off of one 2ch power amp and use whatever works as the preamp controller for
        your needs.

        Edit PE part#300-612 6 zone speaker selector w/volume controller under $250USD
        Monoprice also makes one

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post
          I think it is a mistake to not have zone volume control also if you use a relatively inexpensive 6 zone speaker selector w/volume control it negates the impedence issue so you could run 12 speakers ,6 stereo pairs off of one 2ch power amp and use whatever works as the preamp controller for
          your needs.

          Edit PE part#300-612 6 zone speaker selector w/volume controller under $250USD
          Monoprice also makes one
          neat little device. I never knew anything like this existed without going constant voltage. I didn't consider anything like this because the OP didn't want zone control. That's how we landed where we are now.
          "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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          • #35
            Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post

            neat little device. I never knew anything like this existed without going constant voltage. I didn't consider anything like this because the OP didn't want zone control. That's how we landed where we are now.
            If your friend wants he can turn all zones up to 11, I'm pretty sure they go to 11!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post
              ...neat little device. I never knew anything like this existed without going constant voltage.....
              I installed a Niles version of this sort of device for a friend years ago ( prior to Wireless options )
              It will balance impedance, but it doesn't negate the insertion loss due to long wire runs.
              "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
              “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
              "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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              • #37
                He said no zones... but if having zones improve the quality, now that we came to know about the loss problem (i am writing yamaha right now) we could implement zones. In the end he will use all of them with same volume levels.

                Question is: which gave the best solution in terms of audio quality?

                Ps. Thank you for the "nice job" on the picture... PowerPoint helps for real sometimes

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post

                  If your friend wants he can turn all zones up to 11, I'm pretty sure they go to 11!
                  I believe you and I have reached a stalemate which is totally fine. Agree to disagree. I believe we are both trying to provide differing ideas (solutions) to the OP. I can think of multiple ways to do this project and utilizing that device you mentioned is actually now one (1) of them. Turning everything up to 11 though completely negates the purpose of having a zone controller. Not to mention Zack has mentioned numerous times that zone control is of no concern. In my opinion (you know what they say), and if it were my gym (which it's not) I would want zone control and I know exactly how I would do it. Now with that being said, everyone will do things differently by how they see fit, advice from others, and what their budget dictates.

                  Zack -- If you would like my opinion or help on this project, PM me. I'd be glad to offer up my ideas.

                  Aside from that, I'm going to have to retire from this thread. There is too much disagreement.
                  "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post

                    I believe you and I have reached a stalemate which is totally fine. Agree to disagree. I believe we are both trying to provide differing ideas (solutions) to the OP. I can think of multiple ways to do this project and utilizing that device you mentioned is actually now one (1) of them. Turning everything up to 11 though completely negates the purpose of having a zone controller. Not to mention Zack has mentioned numerous times that zone control is of no concern. In my opinion (you know what they say), and if it were my gym (which it's not) I would want zone control and I know exactly how I would do it. Now with that being said, everyone will do things differently by how they see fit, advice from others, and what their budget dictates.

                    Zack -- If you would like my opinion or help on this project, PM me. I'd be glad to offer up my ideas.

                    Aside from that, I'm going to have to retire from this thread. There is too much disagreement.
                    You do realize (sarcasm) turning up to 11 was a joke. my point was he would have zone control and he could turn them to whatever works for his situation. Say for instance the office where equipment is located do you think it's not a bad idea to be able to control the volume in that area
                    as opposed to lowering the volume for the whole gym if a phone call needed to be answered? Google 3 stooges

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                    • #40
                      Squidspeak: client is always right no? He told me he doesn't need zones. Count that he will have his office and also he will talk during sessions, so music will not be so loud

                      In any case it's also good to create a forecast of the expense in case of zones, to compare the two solutions:

                      So far we have:

                      Solution 1) Yamaha RX-A2070BL --> 8 speakers all in stereo configuration.
                      Note on solution 1:
                      - Yamaha has to confirm the loss of power when all speakers are connected in stereo-channel,

                      Solution 2) Yamaha RX-A680 (music source) --> Mixer MX 406 (via the RCA inputs) --> Amplifier KLR-2000 (via the jack audio 6.3) --> 4 speakers on channel 1 and 4 speakers on channel 2.
                      Note on solution 2:
                      - Are the connections between the different components correct? I am not sure how to connect exactly the different components.
                      - How can zone be defined if I join together group of 4 speakers? Will I have maximum 2 zones? So for having more zones I need more KLR-2000? How multiple KLR 2000 are connected to the MX 406?

                      - Other than zones, which would be the advantages? Spending double is not a problem if there is value in it.



                      Note on both solutions: should speakers be mounted on the corner or along the walls? Are the AW6500 good for corners?




                      I am verifying the possibility of using the ceiling by attaching the speakers there, but since so far I have been told this is not possible, I would like to discard this solution as of now.

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                      • #41
                        Regarding solution 2.... is everything correct?

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                        • #42
                          I'll offer a different opinion/option: With $6K to spend, you might end up with a better sounding system that's easier to operate and more reliable (bullet-proof) by hiring a professional who has access to the proposed building. You might want to search for a paper titled "Why churches buy three sound systems..."
                          Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

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                          • #43
                            Look at hanging pendant style speakers, I'm sure there would be something to attach the support cables to. Lots of makes and models to choose from.
                            Mike Caldwell
                            http://www.mikecaldwellaudioproductions.com

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                            • #44
                              We are checking if the ceiling can be used, but most probably no.

                              Yamaha replied for solution 1 and they suggested to NOT to use and AV like I wrote, but to attach the speakers to an amplifier.

                              Are Yamaha good amplifiers? I am thinking at this point to go to solution 2, leveraging a 8 channels amplifier...

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                              • #45
                                Maybe look beyond Yamaha, yes they make as good pro-amps as any other. Can you get their product at discount ? There are a lot of alternatives but I don't know what is
                                driving your choices as far as brand.

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