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  • Dayton subwoofers

    HO HF and ultimax. Which will do better sealed in a small SUV? The consensus seems to be go with the ultimax. But I have yet to hear that from any one with actual experience with it in a sealed box in an SUV with 1200 to 2400 watts rms on tap I was thinking a pair each getting 1200 rms . But the more I read the more questions I have.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bill C View Post
    HO HF and ultimax. Which will do better sealed in a small SUV? The consensus seems to be go with the ultimax. But I have yet to hear that from any one with actual experience with it in a sealed box in an SUV with 1200 to 2400 watts rms on tap I was thinking a pair each getting 1200 rms . But the more I read the more questions I have.
    Out of curiosity, what size were you thinking?
    "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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    • #3
      Any of those would be awesome. My recommendation:
      If possible, model them in a tool like WinISD and evaluate based on the results. If not possible, look at the sealed box recommendations on the product pages. Go for the lowest F3 out of the bunch, preferably with the box volume close to your design target. For sealed, smaller sizes = higher Q and higher F3 and will start peaking a bit. Larger than recommended = lower Q and lower F3, and generally no serious issues.
      Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
      Wogg Music

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      • #4
        Has anyone on here used the 8" model in a sealed enclosure before? I was messing around with a design for a tower speaker with an 8" ultimax in the side of it. Just curious if it's a good performer and or if I should just up to a 10 or 12..... A little off topic, but still talking about Dayton Sub-woofers
        "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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        • #5
          The Ultimax will model the best, but HF always works out the best for a number of reasons.
          Guess xmax's age.

          My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post
            Has anyone on here used the 8" model in a sealed enclosure before? I was messing around with a design for a tower speaker with an 8" ultimax in the side of it. Just curious if it's a good performer and or if I should just up to a 10 or 12..... A little off topic, but still talking about Dayton Sub-woofers
            Use WinISD or the like to check your excursion - the 8 will run out of steam pretty fast. 96dB is the maximum at 30hz before you hit the mechanical limitations of the woofer. A ported box tuned to 30hz wouldn't be much larger, and would be able to play over 100dB before the woofer hit its' limits. The 10 or 12 can, of course, play louder.

            Originally posted by xmax View Post
            The Ultimax will model the best, but HF always works out the best for a number of reasons.
            How so? I've seen some awfully impressive distortion numbers out of the Ultimax.

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            • #7
              For traditional max-flat alignments, the HF requires a larger box than the HO, as stated from the parameter set. The HO requires a larger box than the Ultimax, again straight from the parameter set.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post

                Out of curiosity, what size were you thinking?
                I was thinking a pair of 15's or 18's

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                • #9
                  Well I just pulled the trigger on 2 15s. I won't have any cargo area left. But I have up to 4.25 cubed per sub of area to build a box more if I want to sacrifice some vision through rear view mirror. And 1178ish rms per sub on tap

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                  • #10
                    Um15 that is

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                    • #11
                      Anyone have time to model a box for these for me say 1150 rms per sub coils wired in series. Jeep liberty SUV. My midbass speakers do really nice down to about 60 Hz up front. So basically 20hz to 80 or 90 Hz to allow for some overlap is all I'm looking for. I absolutely hate the port noise the system had with 12's ported.. so my logic is more power more cone area and sealed for tighter snappier bass. I think p.e. recommends 3 ft cubed per sub sealed in a house... think that would be ok for these or is a different size more optimal? I have a dsp with up to 10 bands of parametric eq per sub and 6,12,18,24,30,And 36 db crossover ability.. so if anything I would rather have the box give me 20hz to 90 Hz with as much output as possible and I can tame any peaks or spikes when I tune it.. any advice or experience with these subs would be greatly appreciated.

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                      • #12
                        You can find 0.5 ohm stable automotive amplifiers (of the Class D variety), and they are a way to pull more current from a 12V supply without a large voltage step-up in the power supply. It might be the best way to get your Ultimax drivers some power, as they really do crave it. While you don't want to run them at such high power continuously, having 6dB of voltage headroom in your amplifier (4X RMS power) for peaks will result in a more musical sounding system. One of the more amazing things to me is just how large the peak output of a musical signal can be, relative to the RMS power.

                        Also, large high-BL, high-excursion drivers generate lots of back-EMF, which results in higher reflected impedance at the amplifier, and it takes lots of voltage to push through that and gain control over the current in the voice coil so the cone can be electromechanically controlled when it is moving. This is why the Sunfire subwoofers were outfitted with such large amplifiers; they could only supply "2400W" for a brief period but when the woofer was really moving, the actual RMS power delivered was something closer to 300W, so I've been told by people familiar with the design.
                        Technology in the service of art, for the life of the music.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill C View Post
                          Anyone have time to model a box for these for me say 1150 rms per sub coils wired in series. Jeep liberty SUV. My midbass speakers do really nice down to about 60 Hz up front. So basically 20hz to 80 or 90 Hz to allow for some overlap is all I'm looking for. I absolutely hate the port noise the system had with 12's ported.. so my logic is more power more cone area and sealed for tighter snappier bass. I think p.e. recommends 3 ft cubed per sub sealed in a house... think that would be ok for these or is a different size more optimal? I have a dsp with up to 10 bands of parametric eq per sub and 6,12,18,24,30,And 36 db crossover ability.. so if anything I would rather have the box give me 20hz to 90 Hz with as much output as possible and I can tame any peaks or spikes when I tune it.. any advice or experience with these subs would be greatly appreciated.
                          A couple of things. I am not an expert, but overlapping frequencies with a sub-woofer makes for some strange anomalies. I wouldn't recommend it.

                          Second, Port noise and snappier bass aren't the same issue so don't associate those two (2) things together. Port noise has to do with under-sizing the vent in the enclosure and the velocity of air entering and exiting the vent is too fast (I forget the threshold value).

                          Something else to consider is gain from your vehicle. You're going to get some gain from the interior of your vehicle no different than you would if you had the sub-woofer installed in a room in a house. I could be wrong, but knowing that information would help in designing the sealed enclosure so that the overall Q can be determined. Just throwing an arbitrary value volume of box at it could result in a sub-woofer that doesn't perform to your expectation regardless of how much DSP you have. I am not ragging on you by any means and hopefully this isn't coming off as such. This is just some friendly advice.
                          "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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                          • #14
                            I'm not an expert, but if I remember correctly from all my reading here, you're probably better off with a sealed sub: (1) Cabin gain is a significant contributor, (2) Requires a smaller and more forgiving enclosure without any port issues; and (3) More accurate bass.

                            Also, the only way to get more rms watts into a 4 ohm sub is to up the amp's voltage over the car's nominal 12 V system. Any car amp (with reputable specs) that advertises anything above 18 W rms, into 4 ohms has the step up converter built in. It's physics and no "magic" technology can change that.

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                            • #15
                              ... Anyone have time to model a box for these ...

                              Guess I missed what amp you have, but like some have touched on; some amp's ratings are suspect. I've a pair of '300 watt' class d chip amps driving one of my diy brews and an old 100 watt Orion HCCA250 sitting in the shed. Both are way off on their ratings. By my rythmatic, and seat of the pants rating, the '300 watt' chip amp only outputs around 100 real watts while the '100 watt' Orion produces more than 500 while pulling around 70amps @14volts. With the Ultimaxes, the question begs asking; can you ever have too much power?

                              You mentioned 4.5ft³ per sub as the max? From experience, I'm not one to recommend something so large it blocks the rear-view mirror. What would be the largest and smallest volume of enclosure you would want to go? I can model them in UniBox, this will not include cabin gain, which to my understanding, can be substantial.

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