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  • #16
    You can search this particular forum for "cabin gain" and find a lot of useful posts.
    Seems most people say cabin gain adds a lot to auto subs.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by donradick View Post
      You can search this particular forum for "cabin gain" and find a lot of useful posts.
      Seems most people say cabin gain adds a lot to auto subs.
      Cabin "gain" accounts for the increase in SPL because of the radiation "angle" is drastically reduced in comparison to free space (4π steradians) or even ½ space (2π steradians) or ¼ space (π steradians), etc.. Nothing gets added, the output was always there, it's just that now that output that was free to disperse freely is now confined to a smaller volume with closer and closer boundaries. Same thing happens inside rooms, not just automotive spaced, just to a lesser extent for the most part.


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      • #18
        The amps are of decent quality. Alpine pdx series. Birth sheet is 1178 on one and the other is 1165. That's verified with a good rms multimeter and it's clean output no distortion. So I can feed them 1160 each rms or I can use one sub and feed each coil 1160. I have had 12's sealed and ported in it before. And didn't care for the port noise.. so more cone area and sealed seems the way to go.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
          Cabin "gain" accounts for the increase in SPL because of the radiation "angle" is drastically reduced in comparison to free space (4π steradians) or even ½ space
          Cabin Gain, also known as Pressure Vessel Gain, is a totally separate phenomena from space loading. In a perfectly tight room gain at a rate of 12dB/octave begins where the longest room dimension is 1/2 wavelength. You don't get that much in most real world situations, but you do get enough so that in the average car best results are had with an 8 to 12 inch driver in a small sealed cab with 60 to 70Hz f3 in half-space. While space loading can't be entirely discounted from the equation cabin gain is at least 90% responsible for the high levels seen in auto dB competitions, levels that would be otherwise unattainable.
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          • #20
            The amps are of decent quality. Alpine pdx series. Birth sheet is 1178 on one and the other is 1165. That's verified with a good rms multimeter and it's clean output no distortion. So I can feed them 1160 each rms or I can use one sub and feed each coil 1160. I have had 12's sealed and ported in it before. And didn't care for the port noise.. so more cone area and sealed seems the way to go.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bill C
              That's at a 2 or 4 ohm load. And I checked them put with a sine wave and a scope. Both over 1160 watts rms. Think maybe I would be better off using one um18-22 and using one amp per voicecoil? They were alpines premier offering for a few years. Pdx-1.1000 amps. Even on a bad day I'm sure they will do a solid 1k each .. should be good enough for one 18 or a pair of smaller ultimax subs.
              Forgive me as I'm no comprehending something here. You have sub-woofers that are rated at 800W RMS and your amps are 1160 max RMS @4ohm. Your sub-woofers you ordered are 2ohm DVC so that would be 4ohm nominal (approx) in series. What is the problem here? I know the 2:1 ratio for PA speakers as I always try to have double the power on tap for PA gear, but what are you trying to accomplish here? You have more than adequate power on tap.

              I have a '14 Tundra with Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 component speakers in the all four (4) doors with only 75W RMS available to them (they are 100W RMS max rated). I love stuff loud and I am making my ears bleed before I run out of headroom and on the bottom end I am running a JL stealthbox (not the best sound quality) with two (2) 10" sub-woofers in it. That thing isn't even sweating trying to keep up so I'm struggling with two (2) 15" or one (1) 18" sub-woofer in a Jeep. Granted my speakers are only 90dB sensitivity, but I have a hard time believing any speaker in a OEM opening would be correctly audible with as much bass as you are trying to push in this vehicle. Unless you have PA speakers or four (4) 6-1/2" coax speakers in your door, they're going to be drowned out with these sub-woofers. Why so much?

              DISCLAIMER: Again not ragging on you, just trying to understand the project. I love loud music and more bottom end in my music than most (I'm a bass player), but I have done enough car stereos in my life to know sizing, gains, and outcome. If you're going for an SPL competition then I get it.
              "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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              • #22
                I think the reason he mentions this is because I, and another, mentioned having enough power for the ultimax. IMO, too much power is just barely enough, especially when dealing with subs of this magnitude. It sounds like he has, in the words of Tim the Tool Man ... more power.

                YMMV

                To the point of port noise the OP mentioned ... when designing a ported enclosure it is wise to keep an eye on port air velocities, size, even resonances in the port itself. Velocity too high, go with a larger port. Large port resonance, then use multiple smaller ports, or slot port.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by STIchris722 View Post

                  Forgive me as I'm no comprehending something here. You have sub-woofers that are rated at 800W RMS and your amps are 1160 max RMS @4ohm. Your sub-woofers you ordered are 2ohm DVC so that would be 4ohm nominal (approx) in series. What is the problem here? I know the 2:1 ratio for PA speakers as I always try to have double the power on tap for PA gear, but what are you trying to accomplish here? You have more than adequate power on tap.

                  I have a '14 Tundra with Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 component speakers in the all four (4) doors with only 75W RMS available to them (they are 100W RMS max rated). I love stuff loud and I am making my ears bleed before I run out of headroom and on the bottom end I am running a JL stealthbox (not the best sound quality) with two (2) 10" sub-woofers in it. That thing isn't even sweating trying to keep up so I'm struggling with two (2) 15" or one (1) 18" sub-woofer in a Jeep. Granted my speakers are only 90dB sensitivity, but I have a hard time believing any speaker in a OEM opening would be correctly audible with as much bass as you are trying to push in this vehicle. Unless you have PA speakers or four (4) 6-1/2" coax speakers in your door, they're going to be drowned out with these sub-woofers. Why so much?

                  DISCLAIMER: Again not ragging on you, just trying to understand the project. I love loud music and more bottom end in my music than most (I'm a bass player), but I have done enough car stereos in my life to know sizing, gains, and outcome. If you're going for an SPL competition then I get it.
                  Honestly.. I want to see how far I can push a sound quality system. I cancelled the order for 2 15s. Thinking maybe 1 um18 will be enough. I've had 12s sealed and ported and they were decent quality subs with a properly designed box.. I guess I want bone jarring bass with clarity and no boomy sound.. tight snappy bass. The front stage is 3 way active. Silver flute 8's for midbass poweredoff 150 rms per channel. Rs100p mids with more than enough power on axis in custom pods in sail panels with vifa xt25sc90-04's tweets.. also on axis. It is overkill for sure. I just want to see how far I can push a solid sound quality system. But I want it musical.. not interested in a burp box or spl competition at all.. but if I can push the system. To 150 db or more ... well that would be awesome

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                  • #24
                    The more I get this system dialed im.. the more I realize how ****** some recordings are lol..

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                    • #25
                      And I have experimented with a few sets of subs. I liked the sound of 2 12's sealed.. but it just didn't have enough kick down low..

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                      • #26
                        I'm missing the point here as well, I can see this system in a 4500cft room in your home, but in a car? Have you ever heard a concert at 150+db? Neither have I. Why would you want to?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dwigle View Post
                          I'm missing the point here as well, I can see this system in a 4500cft room in your home, but in a car? Have you ever heard a concert at 150+db? Neither have I. Why would you want to?
                          Cause I can... but seriously. Thus far the entire system is hidden and looks factory. And it is a daily driver over 75 miles a day. It's a hobby and I want to see how far I can push it the only part of the entire system that does not look factory is the sub in the cargo area..

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bill C View Post
                            And I have experimented with a few sets of subs. I liked the sound of 2 12's sealed.. but it just didn't have enough kick down low..
                            Who modeled and built the enclosure for the 12's you had? A 12" sub-woofer with the right specs and if properly enclosed can dig as deep as a 15" or 18" driver. Size for the most part has nothing to do with it.
                            "I don't know everything and do not claim to. I continue to learn and that is what makes me human."

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                            • #29
                              Ok I cancelled the order for the pair of 15's and just ordered one um18-22. Would any of you care to model the box for this ? Have up to 1160ish watts rms per coil. In a jeep liberty. I keep thinking sealed would be better.. And I would like to try it that way first. I have no difficulty building the box. But am not up to speed with modeling software. I know p.e. recommends 3 ft cubed for this sub in a sealed arrangement net. Anyone care to take a stab at this one?

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                              • #30
                                Keep in mind this is something to get you started and this does NOT take into account what cabin gain will do to the freq. response.

                                One um18 in 4ft³ sealed.

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