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RS225 How does it sound when pushed hard?

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  • RS225 How does it sound when pushed hard?

    I'm working on a design that might tax the RS225 a bit. I was wondering how much past x-max it might go before damage, or before sounding distorted. My intent is to cross it 4th order at 1k. I've only heard this driver once in a 2-way, and didn't care too much for the design. Probably was hearing the breakup. The plan is to use it sealed to keep the box small. My other option for woofers would be two Peerless 6.5" HDS. drivers. I've heard these in my design, and a pair may be borderline. I'm hoping a single RS225 might be as good or better at higher SPL.

  • #2
    i used it in my very first build a 2.5 way X'ed at 1200 and thought it sounded fine and i push everything to their limits .
    Paper Towers
    RS180P/28F surrounds
    Boombox

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    • #3
      Originally posted by filmslayer View Post
      i used it in my very first build a 2.5 way X'ed at 1200 and thought it sounded fine and i push everything to their limits .
      How much excursion would you estimate will bottom out the driver? How much did you see with your speaker? I know it's hard to see, and happens quick. I think I've seen .25" peak to peak with my HDS drivers in a sealed box. The box was large for sealed, and allowed more excursion than ideal. This new design will have a Q of about .8 or .9..

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      • #4
        i had it it 1.75 and vented tuned to 45 and never noticed it to be an issue ... but if you remember i used it in the 3 way we were messing with and didn't care for it there due to lack of sensitivity .
        Paper Towers
        RS180P/28F surrounds
        Boombox

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        • #5
          About 8 months ago a friend brought a vintage pair of 70s cabinets over, complete with grill cloth over the front, and using the back panel was able to insert the RS225-4 and the RS28F. The baffle had huge diffraction edges thanks to the method of attaching grill cloth back in the day. Even so, we were stunned by how good the pairing of drivers turned out to be. The RS225 does midrange very well while delivering deep, hard hitting bass. You can see that the crossover point is somewhere around 1400Hz, maybe a touch lower.

          2.2mH, shunt (18uF in series with 1.5Ohm) and .8mH feeding the woofer.
          12uF in series with 2.2 Ohm, shunt (.25mH) across the tweeter terminals.
          Positive phase for both drivers.


          Click image for larger version  Name:	von retro.jpg Views:	1 Size:	85.6 KB ID:	1384383
          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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          • #6

            This is the sim filter that may be my starting point. I think the breakup should be suppressed pretty well.
            The roll off on the top end is intentional. Click image for larger version  Name:	rs225 filter.jpg Views:	1 Size:	385.8 KB ID:	1384385

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post
              About 8 months ago a friend brought a vintage pair of 70s cabinets over, complete with grill cloth over the front, and using the back panel was able to insert the RS225-4 and the RS28F. The baffle had huge diffraction edges thanks to the method of attaching grill cloth back in the day. Even so, we were stunned by how good the pairing of drivers turned out to be. The RS225 does midrange very well while delivering deep, hard hitting bass. You can see that the crossover point is somewhere around 1400Hz, maybe a touch lower.

              2.2mH, shunt (18uF in series with 1.5Ohm) and .8mH feeding the woofer.
              12uF in series with 2.2 Ohm, shunt (.25mH) across the tweeter terminals.
              Positive phase for both drivers.


              Click image for larger version Name:	von retro.jpg Views:	1 Size:	85.6 KB ID:	1384383
              Are you saying that filter is a damped 3rd order? (Coil, cap and resistor, coil). I would have speculated that the breakup might need more attention.

              Can you offer any comparison to the Peerless 8" HDS???? I think that I recall that you have experience with both.

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              • #8
                I just finished a three way with a RS225 ported on the bottom, and I am very happy with the output.
                I had the mini-statements before, and somehow like the single RS 8 inch versus the 2 RS 7 inch drivers.
                I haven't heard some of the other drivers you mention though....

                I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                Tangband W6-sub

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rpb View Post

                  Are you saying that filter is a damped 3rd order? (Coil, cap and resistor, coil). I would have speculated that the breakup might need more attention.

                  Can you offer any comparison to the Peerless 8" HDS???? I think that I recall that you have experience with both.
                  Yes, damped 3rd order. The measured breakup modes were nothing extreme and that 3rd order filter pushed them well down. A small cap in parallel with the .8mH inductor would add a transfer function zero that you could center on the first resonance if you felt you needed more attenuation of the breakup. And increasing that 1.5 Ohm to 3.3 Ohm brings the region around 1KHz down, allowing easy tweaking to taste.

                  The HDS are really nice drivers, a great value like the reference series. I haven't heard the 8" HDS, but I've worked with a variety of the 6.5" versions. I did get to play with the Exclusive version of the 8" woofer.

                  Can't go wrong with either the Peerless or the RS225. Especially if you can put a guide on the tweeter so that it matches the polar response better. After experiencing the Reference 2-way in that less than optimal enclosure, I'd maybe lean toward the RS225 knowing how well it performs across the band. It was quite convincing.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pete Schumacher View Post

                    Yes, damped 3rd order. The measured breakup modes were nothing extreme and that 3rd order filter pushed them well down. A small cap in parallel with the .8mH inductor would add a transfer function zero that you could center on the first resonance if you felt you needed more attenuation of the breakup. And increasing that 1.5 Ohm to 3.3 Ohm brings the region around 1KHz down, allowing easy tweaking to taste.

                    The HDS are really nice drivers, a great value like the reference series. I haven't heard the 8" HDS, but I've worked with a variety of the 6.5" versions. I did get to play with the Exclusive version of the 8" woofer.

                    Can't go wrong with either the Peerless or the RS225. Especially if you can put a guide on the tweeter so that it matches the polar response better. After experiencing the Reference 2-way in that less than optimal enclosure, I'd maybe lean toward the RS225 knowing how well it performs across the band. It was quite convincing.
                    The sim above is using a RS52FN like a tweeter, even though it's a 2" dome. I'm assuming that crossed at 1k, it can keep up with the RS225 at a healthy SPL. I could also filter it to be flat on axis if I want. This speaker is for a friend, and he has put some restrictions on size, cost, and weight. He also wants the laid back response tilt.. It will be used in mono in a big room.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rpb View Post

                      The sim above is using a RS52FN like a tweeter, even though it's a 2" dome. I'm assuming that crossed at 1k, it can keep up with the RS225 at a healthy SPL. I could also filter it to be flat on axis if I want. This speaker is for a friend, and he has put some restrictions on size, cost, and weight. He also wants the laid back response tilt.. It will be used in mono in a big room.
                      You can cross that RS52 at 800 without an issue. You might also consider using the RS100-4 as a mid/tweet.
                      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio

                      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51


                      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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