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What drivers that I have on hand would be best for bass bins for Continuum MTMs

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  • What drivers that I have on hand would be best for bass bins for Continuum MTMs

    I'm currently building a pair of Continuum MTMs and I know that I'll want help out with the bass. I find bass to be at its best when its effortless so I'd prefer to have as much headroom as possible and at normal listening levels want the woofers to be skipping along with ease. I could do something similar to this design: https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content...ay-Writeup.pdf

    I've also thought about running them off of a Dayton 1000 watt sub rack amp I have, maybe get your thoughts on that as well.

    I have a pair of 12s and several 10s I like the idea of 2 10s per side vs a single 12 per side. I also have some 8s, but think those should be saved for another project.

    Not sure if I should go ported or sealed, but thinking sealed to keep cabinet volume down.

    For the 12 I have a pair of Peerless XLSs.




    With an 8 ohm load obviously the passive versions crossover would need to be altered.

    For 10" versions I have these on hand, I have four of all so there will be a pair on each side:

    Vifa NE265-08




    or HiVi W10, from what I can see these are mostly unheard of, especially in the US. They seem quite nice, 3" VC and large motor.






    or Audax PR240Z0 Aerogels





    I could do a single 10 per side and go with the Visaton TIW 250 XS





    I also have several Davis drivers, they're carbon fiber and look nice but I'll need new surrounds and spiders for them. I've heard they're really nice quality though and worth the rebuild.





    I'll get some specs posted up as well, but would like thoughts on what would be a good match for the Continuum MTM.

    Thank you,
    Dan

  • #2
    Drivers that would work well in JB's 1.7cf box (vented OR closed) would model w/about an F3 in the mid 20s in about a 2-1/4 cf box tuned to the mid 20s.
    He'd also like the sensitivty to be in the 85-87dBv range (85 preferred).

    He used the SB29NRX-75: Qts=0.36, Vas=3.2cf, Fs=22
    Also the CSS SDX-10: Qts=0.42, Vas=1.9cf, Fs=26

    Your XLS and Vifas have too low of a Q.
    (Don't really have data on your other drivers.)

    *EDIT* - your HiVi, AUDAX, and Visaton all have an Fs about 10Hz too high.
    Last edited by Chris Roemer; 09-20-2018, 08:38 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
      Drivers that would work well in JB's 1.7cf box (vented OR closed) would model w/about an F3 in the mid 20s in about a 2-1/4 cf box tuned to the mid 20s.
      He'd also like the sensitivty to be in the 85-87dBv range (85 preferred).

      He used the SB29NRX-75: Qts=0.36, Vas=3.2cf, Fs=22
      Also the CSS SDX-10: Qts=0.42, Vas=1.9cf, Fs=26

      Your XLS and Vifas have too low of a Q.
      (Don't really have data on your other drivers.)

      *EDIT* - your HiVi, AUDAX, and Visaton all have an Fs about 10Hz too high.
      Thanks, I figured going with an exact copy of Jeff’s plan would be a long shot especially knowing that with the 12 I couldn’t match impedance and I’d need to two 10s vs his one to meet it.

      So scraping that design all together, if I were to make a sealed cabinet of proper size which setup would be a good match (quality) to the Continuum MTM. I could run it with the Dayton amp at first and go passive at some point.

      http://www.swanspeaker.com/products/...sid=58&pid=203

      http://www.audax.com/archives/pr240z0.jpg

      http://www.audax.com/archives/pr240z0.pdf

      https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...ifications.pdf

      https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...ions-44167.pdf

      http://www.visaton.de/en/products/wo...w-250-xs-8-ohm

      im thinking with the Visaton it’ll need to be ported.

      Its nearly impossible to find specs on the Davis drivers so I’ll need to take care of the suspension first and the. Measure them.


      Dan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
        Drivers that would work well in JB's 1.7cf box (vented OR closed) would model w/about an F3 in the mid 20s in about a 2-1/4 cf box tuned to the mid 20s.
        He'd also like the sensitivty to be in the 85-87dBv range (85 preferred).

        He used the SB29NRX-75: Qts=0.36, Vas=3.2cf, Fs=22
        Also the CSS SDX-10: Qts=0.42, Vas=1.9cf, Fs=26

        Your XLS and Vifas have too low of a Q.
        (Don't really have data on your other drivers.)

        *EDIT* - your HiVi, AUDAX, and Visaton all have an Fs about 10Hz too high.
        Why would you limit yourself to using JB's box design ?
        craigk

        " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

        Comment


        • #5
          The only driver on your list that'll do better than 70Hz closed is the NE265W-08, which will make 60Hz.
          I'd run that one vented, in 1.5cf tuned to 24Hz.
          That would require a 3" Precision Port (4" would be better - AND longer) about 20" long.
          Probably a hefty 12" PR would be the best bet.

          That AUDAX has an Xmax of only 4mm ! (nice woofer probably, but not really a "sub")

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by craigk View Post

            Why would you limit yourself to using JB's box design ?
            What do you think Craig, what option would you roll with?

            Dan

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
              The only driver on your list that'll do better than 70Hz closed is the NE265W-08, which will make 60Hz.
              I'd run that one vented, in 1.5cf tuned to 24Hz.
              That would require a 3" Precision Port (4" would be better - AND longer) about 20" long.
              Probably a hefty 12" PR would be the best bet.

              That AUDAX has an Xmax of only 4mm ! (nice woofer probably, but not really a "sub")
              ??? Sorry I’m a little confused. Are you talking an F3? I’d think in the right cabinet they’d all reach a little lower than 70hz. If i wasn’t clear i meant I’d like to build something similar to Jeff’s design, I’m not stuck to that specific cabinet he used. I’m guessing 1.5cf ported for the NE265W would be for one driver only. I’d really like to run two per side so that I can relieve one driver at a given output. Yeah, I understand the Audax isn’t a subwoofer and really consider then all just woofers with a couple being capable to handle subwoofer duty. So basically I’m looking to find an option that’ll woofer duty well. I may end up going with a minidsp so that I can boost the bottom end if I need to and roll off the bottom end going to the mtms.

              Dan

              Comment


              • #8
                If I were to choose from that list- it'd be tough! I'd likely choose the XLS, W10, or Visatons.
                Some of the best bass I've heard has been from Peerless/XLS; either commercial or DIY. They're usually a little more sensitive than some others, and play low with really clean tonal bass.
                I've heard/read rumors of the CF Visaton woofers over the years, but have never heard one. As I understand it, these are really nice woofers, and throw long and clean.
                The W10 are sold through a Canadian vendor over here, and are relatively unused in the USA. If what I've heard is any indication from the other D and DG series woofers, they should do well, but maybe not as clean as the XLS.

                Oh- and VENT THOSE PUPPIES!!

                My 2c,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

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                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, if you're still entertaining ANY thoughts of going passive, JB was targeting the low end (of sensitivity) of the 85-87dB range. The Vifa/Peerless 10" NE SINGLY will run at least 87dB (a bit "hot"). Two in parallel (for a 4ohm load) will run 93dB (or better). NOT a good match at that level for the Continuums.
                  (Now, if you're just looking for max output sub duty, then a pair makes more sense.)

                  Do you ever box model (it doesn't seem like it)?
                  None of your drivers (10" OR 12") can even hit 60Hz (w/OUT counting room gain) in a non-ported box, except that NE265. Check it out.
                  High Fs doesn't make for a low F3. JB was looking at drivers in the mid 20s, yours are mostly in the mid 30s. A low Qts value will also push F3s UP. Jeff's are close to 0.40. Yours are 0.05 to 0.10 (or even more) below that value.

                  I've used the 8" NE woofers, and they really have quality bass. (At 9mm Xmax) I'm sure a single 10"er would be up to the task (of blending with your Continuums).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                    If I were to choose from that list- it'd be tough! I'd likely choose the XLS, W10, or Visatons.
                    Some of the best bass I've heard has been from Peerless/XLS; either commercial or DIY. They're usually a little more sensitive than some others, and play low with really clean tonal bass.
                    I've heard/read rumors of the CF Visaton woofers over the years, but have never heard one. As I understand it, these are really nice woofers, and throw long and clean.
                    The W10 are sold through a Canadian vendor over here, and are relatively unused in the USA. If what I've heard is any indication from the other D and DG series woofers, they should do well, but maybe not as clean as the XLS.

                    Oh- and VENT THOSE PUPPIES!!

                    My 2c,
                    Wolf
                    Thanks for your input Ben, that’s another for for ported so maybe I should go that route. I’ll have to model and see how big some of these cabinets will get lol. To be completely honest I was hoping the forum members would help me to pin it down to one option, but part of me wants to build a cabinet for every option and cycle through them. Then I could just build a few more bookshelf sized speakers and have several different combinations.

                    Dan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                      Well, if you're still entertaining ANY thoughts of going passive, JB was targeting the low end (of sensitivity) of the 85-87dB range. The Vifa/Peerless 10" NE SINGLY will run at least 87dB (a bit "hot"). Two in parallel (for a 4ohm load) will run 93dB (or better). NOT a good match at that level for the Continuums.
                      (Now, if you're just looking for max output sub duty, then a pair makes more sense.)

                      Do you ever box model (it doesn't seem like it)?
                      None of your drivers (10" OR 12") can even hit 60Hz (w/OUT counting room gain) in a non-ported box, except that NE265. Check it out.
                      High Fs doesn't make for a low F3. JB was looking at drivers in the mid 20s, yours are mostly in the mid 30s. A low Qts value will also push F3s UP. Jeff's are close to 0.40. Yours are 0.05 to 0.10 (or even more) below that value.

                      I've used the 8" NE woofers, and they really have quality bass. (At 9mm Xmax) I'm sure a single 10"er would be up to the task (of blending with your Continuums).

                      Well as far as going passive I’m not too concerned with final sensitivity as I’d likely biamp and set the woofer amp gain accordingly. As long as they were fairly linear up to the crossover point then I feel I’d be good.

                      I do model, I use either winisd or bass box pro. I was just hoping to save myself some time of modeling all options by having forum members hopefully picking a favorite for the job and then modeling those. To be honest I thought you meant in room they would have that high of an F3. With no boundary reinforcement that makes sense they’d start rolling off so high. I guess I should just start modeling them all and see where they’d fall. I was just hoping folks here would make my job easier.

                      Maybe I should just make this easy on myself and either plan on using my Dayton sub amp or go with a minidsp so I can play with crossover points and contouring the FR. Maybe I should buy 10 sheets of MDF and start cutting.

                      Dan

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