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  • RS100-8 notch filter help

    Well, I think I need a notch filter anyway from reading a lot of the posts on full range drivers. I have no idea how to design one, and need help.

    I'm pushing them with a Kenwood KA8100, I think it does around 75watts if that matters. The speakers right now sound great, probably the first pair of speakers I've heard with a sound stage. Or at least what I think is a soundstage.

    The box is internal dimensions 16.5x4x8 inches, and the port is about 16 inches long not including the kerfed part, (1"x4"). I'm quite surprised by the fact that these things are playing really low bass. not loud, but it's there.

    Anyway, can someone help me design a filter please. If you ask me sometimes mens voices have a spike. So somewhere in that range i think this speaker acts up.

    Thanks!


  • #2
    Your TT and amp are close to what I had at one point in college. I'm guessing the TT is a Technics SL210?

    Anyway - here's a site that uses the rs100-8 and has a filter posted.
    Informacje o zwrotnice do Dayton Audio RS100-8 - 7237547159 w archiwum allegro. Data zakończenia 2018-03-25 - cena 10.5 zł
    Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

    Comment


    • #3
      Not many RS100-8 designs out there. Most seem to use the RS100-4. I'm at work, so I can't model that filter in the link. It just says they are "crossovers" so it may not solve the issue you are hearing. I do know that big cap is protecting the driver from low frequencies, but hard to say what the notch is doing without modeling software. I'm guessing you need some baffle step compensation to balance the low and high end - and a notch to kill the spike above 10K. There may be other shaping to be done too.
      Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bgymr View Post
        Well, I think I need a notch filter anyway from reading a lot of the posts on full range drivers. I have no idea how to design one, and need help.

        I'm pushing them with a Kenwood KA8100, I think it does around 75watts if that matters. The speakers right now sound great, probably the first pair of speakers I've heard with a sound stage. Or at least what I think is a soundstage.

        The box is internal dimensions 16.5x4x8 inches, and the port is about 16 inches long not including the kerfed part, (1"x4"). I'm quite surprised by the fact that these things are playing really low bass. not loud, but it's there.

        Anyway, can someone help me design a filter please. If you ask me sometimes mens voices have a spike. So somewhere in that range i think this speaker acts up.

        Thanks!
        Do you have any x-over parts on hand?

        Comment


        • #5
          I can't model a filter, but for some baffle step I would use a 1.5mh inductor and buy a couple resistors starting with a 4 ohm, maybe a 5.1 or 6 ohm also. Season to taste swapping each resistor out. This would most likely give desired effect.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rpb View Post

            Do you have any x-over parts on hand?
            I have some stuff I guess. I just bought some cheap crossovers from amazon, two of them for $13. I dont mind taking them apart but the parts aren't really labeled.

            Comment


            • #7
              I simmed several filters from simple to complex. The simple filter used 4 parts, and would probably cost $12 / speaker, or thereabouts. The complex one, about $36. Without measuring, I can't be sure they work correctly. The values would need to be precise. The simple filter just adds some baffle step, and would make the speaker sound less bright. The complex filter notches out a bump at 3k, and at the top end.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	single driver RS100-8 simple.jpg Views:	1 Size:	388.5 KB ID:	1390360Click image for larger version  Name:	single driver RS100-8 complex.jpg Views:	1 Size:	438.8 KB ID:	1390361

              Comment


              • #8
                I modelled the notch. The filter tom_s linked in post #2 works well without the 220 uF protection cap. A similar version is shown in the attached picture
                John H

                Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                Comment


                • #9
                  I modeled just the notch (around 3k, the top of the voice range - you've got a pretty good ear) like John did. Got nearly the exact same values:
                  5ohm resistor
                  12uF cap
                  0.20mH coil (#20)

                  John's 10uF cap would raise the notch freq. SLIGHTly (either are probably OK).
                  His 6ohm resistor would pull the output (around 3k) down SLIGHTly more than mine (either are probably OK).

                  That 220uF cap inline cuts the output of the driver mostly below 300Hz. Kinda nullifies making the box vented.
                  You'd want to actually do the opposite to get some baffle-step compensation (probably).

                  I don't understand your port. If it's a "slot" that's 1" x 4" and 16" long, it would tune a 0.31cf cab to the mid 40s, which seems way too low to me.
                  I'd shoot for the low 50s myself. Did you use a box modeling program? What's your projected Fb and F3 ??

                  That driver will hit its Xmax excursion limit at around 8w RMS with 50Hz program material (in a 0.3cf vented box).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is there any budget for a DSP and mic?

                    A 2x4 analog miniDSP $95 + UMIK-1 $75 + free REW will allow infinite experimentation to nail notch, shelf and just about every other possible combinations to fine tune in real time, including multiple applied to same channel, across certain frequencies ranges within a channel, anything you want across channels independently etc.

                    Or best (at-least, awesome) using a generated biquad from REW automatically taking relevant measurable aspects of the room where the equipment is and dumping a biquad you can import to the DSP. It'll then be tuned not just at the speaker level but explicitly for the environment where it's playing.

                    The miniDSP purchase comes with the plugin for their software, which is incredible, flexible and easy to learn. Includes a bass management version. That's what you use to tune it (including importing biquads and other stuff) to the DSP. Can do it all in real time. Once satisfied, lock it in and the DSP will just use it automatically until changed or removed. Don't need computer plugged up afterward.

                    PE also has a couple cheaper mics in Measurement Mic section.

                    Just tossing it out as an option since no budget was mentioned.
                    Feel free to rip my assumptions apart when wrong, or fix if close.

                    Passive Radiators:
                    All PR(s) Vd must at-least double all woofer(s) Vd. Calc = Sd x Xmax to get Vd for all PR(s) and all woofer(s). If all PR(s) Vd at-least double all woofer(s) Vd they'll work.
                    For woofer(s) with large Xmax vs Sd, all PR(s) with Xmax at-least double all woofer(s) Xmax will work.
                    A PR max weight is said to be its Mms x3

                    PR Systems - tight focus with key parameters.
                    PR Speaker Design - thorough coverage.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thump View Post
                      Is there any budget for a DSP and mic?

                      A 2x4 analog miniDSP $95 + UMIK-1 $75 + free REW will allow infinite experimentation to nail notch, shelf and just about every other possible combinations to fine tune in real time, including multiple applied to same channel, across certain frequencies ranges within a channel, anything you want across channels independently etc.

                      Or best (at-least, awesome) using a generated biquad from REW automatically taking relevant measurable aspects of the room where the equipment is and dumping a biquad you can import to the DSP. It'll then be tuned not just at the speaker level but explicitly for the environment where it's playing.

                      The miniDSP purchase comes with the plugin for their software, which is incredible, flexible and easy to learn. Includes a bass management version. That's what you use to tune it (including importing biquads and other stuff) to the DSP. Can do it all in real time. Once satisfied, lock it in and the DSP will just use it automatically until changed or removed. Don't need computer plugged up afterward.

                      PE also has a couple cheaper mics in Measurement Mic section.

                      Just tossing it out as an option since no budget was mentioned.
                      i am not sure I want to dive that deep into the hobby yet. But if anyone lives near 18018 and wants to let me borrow one, I would run it.

                      I will order some parts as per the above designs. And start tinkering.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bgymr View Post

                        i am not sure I want to dive that deep into the hobby yet. But if anyone lives near 18018 and wants to let me borrow one, I would run it.

                        I will order some parts as per the above designs. And start tinkering.
                        No sweat, wasn't sure how far you wanted to go. There are such a huge amount of options, ranging from a few bucks to several hundred (and thousand).

                        Definitely go with your gut and know that you have several absolute guru posting passive filter options for you up above.

                        After tinkering and sharing results with them you'll have it dialed in no time I'm sure. Good luck!
                        Feel free to rip my assumptions apart when wrong, or fix if close.

                        Passive Radiators:
                        All PR(s) Vd must at-least double all woofer(s) Vd. Calc = Sd x Xmax to get Vd for all PR(s) and all woofer(s). If all PR(s) Vd at-least double all woofer(s) Vd they'll work.
                        For woofer(s) with large Xmax vs Sd, all PR(s) with Xmax at-least double all woofer(s) Xmax will work.
                        A PR max weight is said to be its Mms x3

                        PR Systems - tight focus with key parameters.
                        PR Speaker Design - thorough coverage.

                        Comment

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