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  • Building the ideal studio mains. How low can we go?

    https://www.resolutionmag.com/wp-con...l-Twin6-BE.pdf

    Above are the specs on the pretty much ideal studio main. the pricetag is outrageous but what are you gonna do?
    IF i wen the diy route the price has got to be considerably cheaper. I am hoping someone is in the mood for a challenge.
    my ideal specs would be
    Small midrange/bass drivers for the clarity and dispersion. I think I would possible go smaller than 6.5 inch drivers
    Ribbon tweeters seem to be the best bang for the buck so I'd want one of those.
    I'd like to have a musical/rms spl of 109 or more which should give me a max spl of 111 or more.
    I can figure out the dsp part of the equation for crossover/limiter function
    I'd need to be able to successfully cross over to sub at 80hz, but I honestly like 50hz.
    And then I'd need some amps, I'm guessing class d mono blocks, one set for l/r tweeter, and another set for l/r woofer(s)


    It'd be awesome to get all this done with a 2 way housing a 4-5 inch driver, but I'mm guessing MTM designs are not common for no reason.

    The part where I'd really like insight is driver selection. The impulse response of the Twin6 is superb. The frequency response is as well. I know a lot of you guys are already well versed in which drivers really turn you on not to mention its hard to find impulse response specs and waterfall charts on half of the products and the other half its about impossible. Thanks for any help and guidance.

    Camplo

  • #2
    Well, 109db is likely a lie, and a large part of the cost of that is to pay for a Focal badge. You can do better with any number of DIY mtm designs, take your pick.
    Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know you are right, which is why I am back here, and I thank God I started here. They are completely taking advantage of the community of mix/master engineers who have no idea why they just spent several thousand dollars on some genelecs other than thats what everyone else has done.

      So if you see something I am trying to do that doesn't warrant the energy, please call me out on it. For example, one amp per driver philosophy, I will probably be satisfied with what I got atm for a while and start researching the system I will build over the next year or two.

      Can you please link me to the DIY projects you speak of? The ones that might fit what I'm looking for?
      Also feel free to share your favorite tweeter and 4-5" woofers I might be interested in. I am completely out of the loop as far as amps are concerned, plus I am conditioned to believe the balanced outputs are a necessity so I'll be trying to make it

      Comment


      • #4
        Desktop? Stereo?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by camplo View Post
          I know you are right, which is why I am back here, and I thank God I started here. They are completely taking advantage of the community of mix/master engineers who have no idea why they just spent several thousand dollars on some genelecs other than thats what everyone else has done.

          So if you see something I am trying to do that doesn't warrant the energy, please call me out on it. For example, one amp per driver philosophy, I will probably be satisfied with what I got atm for a while and start researching the system I will build over the next year or two.

          Can you please link me to the DIY projects you speak of? The ones that might fit what I'm looking for?
          Also feel free to share your favorite tweeter and 4-5" woofers I might be interested in. I am completely out of the loop as far as amps are concerned, plus I am conditioned to believe the balanced outputs are a necessity so I'll be trying to make it
          What are you trying to accomplish? I see no reason anyone would want 110dB music. Is that your goal? Is this speaker intended for use in mixing recordings, or is it for enjoying music?

          What do you mean by "How low can we go?"

          Comment


          • #6
            This speaker is not an mtm, it is 3 way design.
            craigk

            " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

            Comment


            • #7
              I was jesting at being cheap, when I said how low can we go. I know you get what you pay for but I also know that there is a huge mark up on studio monitors, probably akin to that of car audio.
              As it says in the title they are for a home studio usage, but I tend to go for an all around set up that is used for studio mixing and mastering and entertainment ie movies, video games. A loud version of the former scenario is my win.
              I listen to music at levels that high (110db). Sometimes I listen at high levels, maybe not 110, while sitting in the sweetspot, and other times the loudness is nice to fill the house with music. Its not so much about listening at 110db, its that my last set of mains were rated at a musical 109db and peak 111db with matching twin subs rated at 114db musical and peak 117db. To be honest the bass was lacking, I like to be able to feel it in the chest and it was barely there, at peak levels, and thats with a 29hz f3. So it is a point of reference for how powerful of a stereo system I would like to wield.

              The knowledge of which drivers and potentially which amps to look into is what I hope to learn. I can use a minidsp for my crossover/limiter so that part is taken care of.
              I haven't found reading on what is the best crossover point between the mids and subwoofer. For example with a mid and tweeter you want the xover to cross above vocal range. I wonder what is the rule of thumb between the mid/midbass and subwoofer

              I guess that isn't a mtm, rather a 3 way. If I consider this true
              Sub-bass 20 to 60 Hz
              Bass 60 to 250 Hz
              Low midrange 250 to 500 Hz
              Midrange 500 Hz to 2 kHz
              I understand that the rules are to be understood not always followed but essentially. I guess. I am creating a 3 way with 12" 4" and 1" drivers. Yet the 12" will live in its own enclosure and the the 4"(s) and 1" will live in another. Is that a 3 way or a two way with a sub? That factor isn't all that important. I wish I knew what specs to look at to judge sound quality. I've been led to believe its the BL Product. An impulse response of each driver is probably out the window. At the very least I can see the frequency response curves. You guys may already know the choice drivers for my application.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dangerous Decibels » How Loud is Too Loud?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by camplo View Post
                  I was jesting at being cheap, when I said how low can we go. I know you get what you pay for but I also know that there is a huge mark up on studio monitors, probably akin to that of car audio.
                  As it says in the title they are for a home studio usage, but I tend to go for an all around set up that is used for studio mixing and mastering and entertainment ie movies, video games. A loud version of the former scenario is my win.
                  I listen to music at levels that high (110db). Sometimes I listen at high levels, maybe not 110, while sitting in the sweetspot, and other times the loudness is nice to fill the house with music. Its not so much about listening at 110db, its that my last set of mains were rated at a musical 109db and peak 111db with matching twin subs rated at 114db musical and peak 117db. To be honest the bass was lacking, I like to be able to feel it in the chest and it was barely there, at peak levels, and thats with a 29hz f3. So it is a point of reference for how powerful of a stereo system I would like to wield.

                  The knowledge of which drivers and potentially which amps to look into is what I hope to learn. I can use a minidsp for my crossover/limiter so that part is taken care of.
                  I haven't found reading on what is the best crossover point between the mids and subwoofer. For example with a mid and tweeter you want the xover to cross above vocal range. I wonder what is the rule of thumb between the mid/midbass and subwoofer

                  I guess that isn't a mtm, rather a 3 way. If I consider this true
                  Sub-bass 20 to 60 Hz
                  Bass 60 to 250 Hz
                  Low midrange 250 to 500 Hz
                  Midrange 500 Hz to 2 kHz
                  I understand that the rules are to be understood not always followed but essentially. I guess. I am creating a 3 way with 12" 4" and 1" drivers. Yet the 12" will live in its own enclosure and the the 4"(s) and 1" will live in another. Is that a 3 way or a two way with a sub? That factor isn't all that important. I wish I knew what specs to look at to judge sound quality. I've been led to believe its the BL Product. An impulse response of each driver is probably out the window. At the very least I can see the frequency response curves. You guys may already know the choice drivers for my application.
                  Here's a woofer I'd probably consider for a loud 3-way. I've not heard it. I just looked at a few in the pro-audio section.

                  https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-036

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Guess I should add the other characteristic of the system I would build; an f3 of 30hz or better.

                    I busted out the RTA and right now with the two subs, and one krkv4s4 I can hit 102db at 1 meter. Plenty for a conservative fellow I'm sure. I've been playing the drums since 7, loud is what I like.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow, that's loud. How big a box we looking at? I have a feeling Hoffman will laugh at you...
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For the potential project? A small of box as possible. The subs I have right now are 3.5ft3 boxes, so if I were to make a different pair of subs for the project I'd like to keep that size or smaller
                        the krkv4s4 are 10.08" (256mm) x 6.54" (166mm) x 8.58". SO something about double that size would be my limitation. since I am proposing running two sets of these until I actually materialize the diy system.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by camplo View Post

                          I guess that isn't a mtm, rather a 3 way. If I consider this true
                          Sub-bass 20 to 60 Hz
                          Bass 60 to 250 Hz
                          Low midrange 250 to 500 Hz
                          Midrange 500 Hz to 2 kHz
                          .
                          It's not. Originally sub woofers were just that, SUB woofers, intended to cover the range below where woofers operated, typically up to 40Hz. The range that subs operated to gradually went higher, as did the lowermost range where woofers went to, eventually to where they are today, where the traditional 40Hz capable woofer has been largely replaced by the 80Hz capable midbass. 80Hz is the usual crossover point as that's where subs are not directionally locatable, allowing them to be placed where they work best, which seldom coincides with where the mains work best. Since a good midbass driver is quite capable of reaching high enough to cross over to a good tweeter there's no longer a need for dedicated midrange drivers either. What you end up with is still a 3 way system, but now it's contained in two cabs rather than one. Traditional 3 way and even 4 way all in one box systems still exist, but you'd be hard pressed to justify their added parts count and complexity.

                          www.billfitzmaurice.com
                          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by camplo View Post
                            ...I haven't found reading on what is the best crossover point between the mids and subwoofer. For example with a mid and tweeter you want the xover to cross above vocal range. I wonder what is the rule of thumb between the mid/midbass and subwoofer....
                            That guideline is "dated". Consider that the consonant portion of the voice extends from 2 - 8Khz. It's more a matter of attention to implementation.
                            As far as bass hand-off, I keep it below 80Hz as the ability to locate source position falls off for low frequency and this allows flexibility in sub positioning.
                            ( I suspect the Focal cab posted would be intended best used fairly close in )

                            re SPL
                            "In response to sustained loud sounds, muscle tension tightens the tympanic membrane and, acting through the tendon connecting the hammer and anvil, repositions the ossicles to pull the stirrup back, lessening the transfer of force to the oval window of the inner ear. This contributes to the ear's wide dynamic range.

                            The stapedius muscle and the tensor tympani muscle act in response to loud sounds.(DeBonis & Donohue)"

                            Not to labor the desired level, but the chart that djd posted noted levels; as levels near 90 db the above ear protection starts.
                            This is part of the reason that with live sound bands/dj the SPL gets turned up louder over the course of the session.
                            Of course this reflects both personal preference with a priority of preserving hearing - I avoid sessions that cause ear ringing, which can indicate damage, and can bring on Tinnitus.
                            Setting for a Avg level in the upper 80s, still allows for brief peaks ( which in some dynamic recording can be 17db higher ).

                            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                            “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by camplo View Post
                              loud is what I like.
                              Loud is what you'll need eventually. Hearing loss is progressive and inevitable.

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