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  • C-Note Speakers Diagnostic

    Hello,

    So I finally finished building my first set of speakers, but I feel like I may have done something wrong. I've been performing some A & B testing vs my Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers and they sound quite a bit worse. Based on specs and other things I've read, the C-Notes should sound better than the Pioneers.

    The way I would describe the sound is very thin and lacking mids and bass compared to the Pioneers. The highs are nice and detailed but it's not a balanced sound. I think I wired everything right, but I easily could have missed something. This is also my first time soldering(as you will notice), so maybe I applied too much heat and damaged a component. Any suggestions?

    I bought the parts locally as I'm not from USA and the shipping was aggressively priced.

    I took one of the speakers apart and took some pictures. See link https://imgur.com/a/vGdDyNN. If you need any more pictures just let me know. Thanks for any help.

  • #2
    All your wiring looks OK.
    Have you listened to each cab on their own (instead of as a pair in stereo), with the cabs all "buttoned up" (as in - no air leaks)?
    Did you make the port 7" long?

    Can you see/feel both the woofers move?
    Do you have any test tones to play through them?
    They prob'ly won't do 40 too strong, but 50Hz should be "firm".

    I sure wouldn't think they'd have LESS bass than your Pioneers. 50Hz SHOULD be: C-Notes = "solid" / vs Pioneers = weak(er)?
    Room position can affect the sound a LOT - so put them right where your Pioneers were.

    Comment


    • #3
      Others have noted the C-Notes lack of BSC which could make them sound "thin" if not placed near a wall for room boundry enforcement. I used to have the pioneers, and they do have impressive bass for their size, but not the high end extension. You probubly prefer, or are used to a warmer sounding speaker. Give the C-notes a couple weeks of break in.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thing one would be to do the battery test to make sure the woofers are moving in the same direction. With each completed speaker and a small battery touch the positive speaker wire to the positive battery terminal and the negative speaker wire to the negative battery terminal. Touch on and off and woofer watch the cone move. Repeat with the other speaker.
        John H

        Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the response all. I'll answer the questions below.
          • I have listened to them on their own and they seemed to sound the same. I'll give them another try just to be sure though.
          • Port is exactly 7" long
          • I did try a few test tones and I could hear it at 50 hz but it felt kinda weak
          • I made sure to position them in the same location as the Pioneers
          • I'll definitely try that battery trick

          Maybe I'm just not used to the sound signature of the C-Notes. I'll give them some break in time. The Pioneers are for sure warmer sounding.

          I should mention that I didn't use any poly fill or sound damping material in the speakers. Would that make a big difference? I'm not opposed to buying something.

          I'm trying to avoid screwing and unscrewing the drivers much more into that MDF. I lose material every time and fear the screws will have nothing to grip soon enough.

          Comment


          • #6
            didn't use any poly fill or sound damping material in the speakers
            FWIW For my pair, I lined all inside surfaces (other than the backside of the baffle) with foam 'mattress topper'.

            .
            Ed Henderson

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            • #7
              You can rotate the drivers to expose fresh mdf to screw into. Reinforce the original holes with Titebond. A small bag of polyester pillow fill is pretty inexpensive.

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              • #8
                CORRECTION - down below in post #14? I now believe that the C-Notes only have about 1/2 the full baffle-step correction.

                I ran a sim on the C-Notes (because of a previous post) and to ME it looks like they have a FULL +6dB of baffle-step comp. (mostly applied between 500 and 1500 Hz).

                Personally, I'd try shortening up the port from 7" to 4" (raising the tuning at least 10Hz). This won't do anything for 50Hz, but it should give about a +2dB "lift" in the 60-80Hz range (which is not drastic, but should be "noticeable"). If that's a 2-piece tube (?), just try them w/o the extension to see if you like the sound better - before making anything permanent.
                Last edited by Chris Roemer; 11-08-2018, 09:37 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Any chance the woofers are mis-wired out of phase? John was having you check this with the battery, but an easier way to do it is simply put the speakers together a few inches apart facing each other. If they are in phase the bass will amplify; if out of phase it likely won't change.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                    I ran a sim on the C-Notes (because of a previous post) and to ME it looks like they have a FULL +6dB of baffle-step comp. (mostly applied between 500 and 1500 Hz).

                    Personally, I'd try shortening up the port from 7" to 4" (raising the tuning at least 10Hz). This won't do anything for 50Hz, but it should give about a +2dB "lift" in the 60-80Hz range (which is not drastic, but should be "noticeable"). If that's a 2-piece tube (?), just try them w/o the extension to see if you like the sound better - before making anything permanent.
                    Good idea, +1. Shorten the port, and add some polyfill. You could also add resistance to the tweeter to lower output. Season to taste.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jhollander View Post
                      Thing one would be to do the battery test to make sure the woofers are moving in the same direction. With each completed speaker and a small battery touch the positive speaker wire to the positive battery terminal and the negative speaker wire to the negative battery terminal. Touch on and off and woofer watch the cone move. Repeat with the other speaker.
                      +1 Check this before you go about anything else. It could be as simple as a both woofers not having the same wiring.
                      -Kerry

                      www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sgorveatt View Post
                        ...[*]I made sure to position them in the same location as the Pioneers...
                        If the issue is a different level of BSC, placing them identically is the problem. To test, just put the weaker bass speaker (C-Note) against the wall, then slide it into the corner and see if the bass doesn't start to match the Pioneers.
                        Frank

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                        • #13
                          I wouldn't start changing anything until you verify the woofer wiring is correct by using the battery test John suggested. A small battery (AAA, AA, C, or D cell) and a 3" piece of wire is all you need.
                          Craig

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                          • #14
                            Correction - SORRY

                            Up in post #8, I stated that it looked (to ME) like the C-Notes had a full +6dBSC, but...
                            I was looking at a diff. sim. (Again, sorry.) Apparently they only have about +3dB of BSC.
                            The tweeter and mids run around 83dB, w/most of the BSC (3dB, possibly less) occuring between 200-800Hz.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I never found the bass lacking when I've listened to these.
                              John H

                              Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                              Comment

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