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A theorized commission: "Bar-Gain"...

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  • #16
    Simulation shows a good reverse null at the supposed central position, and the phase locks in directly in front of each channel. This tells me it should have good integration at least from left to right. We'll have to see about outside of the bar's straightforwardness, but that is YTBD. I did 2 slightly different models, just to see what ended up being better.

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    The differences between these 2 are relatively minimal. I'm curious about that range below 1k, but I believe it to be either a reflection or floor bounce. I'll be taking closer mic'd responses just to see when I get it all assembled and wired up. 9 parts isn't too trivial, and I have plenty of space to wire them up.

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #17
      I'm currently trying this thing out! I've listened to Sara Bareilles, Jennifer Warnes, Mortification, Dragon Force, Rodrigo y Gabriela, and I'll be hitting it with some sweeps, techno, and a movie before I'm done.

      It really broke in over the Mort' disc, 'Scrolls of the Megilloth', due to its lower range. I find that most people will prefer a sub with it. It has palpable bass maybe into the 70Hz range on it's own, but the bass is still tactile, tonal, and decent. Sara's upright piano really sounded right in it's lower keys on this area. I do not however find it fatiguing without a sub connected. It's full enough in the right place where it doesn't sound thin on its own. It's more of an impact-style midbass, rather than having the extension as the toms in a drum set have a realistic impact.

      The off-axis is better than I expected, and will likely meet the goals there. I don't notice imbalance from outside the left to outside the right. I also think the stereo image is successful and intact at this length/separation.

      More later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #18
        Now I want a ice cream sandwich. Gotta love gorilla glue for foaming up and sealing "squirrel holes"
        (what we call mid chambers).
        Guess xmax's age.

        My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

        Comment


        • #19
          Looks good and strong Ben

          Comment


          • #20
            Listening to some of the newer units, the all in one surround is actually pretty cool.
            Of course it is not as good as having speakers all over your living room but I still
            would like to know more about the tech, has anyone seen anything available
            as a development tool for this sort of thing? I like the idea of aiming audio
            out of boxes, compromises or not.
            Guess xmax's age.

            My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

            Comment


            • #21
              Likely appropriate for this thread, a discussion of commercial soundbars and their processing...
              https://www.audioxpress.com/article/...nal-processing

              Later,
              Wolf
              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

              *InDIYana event website*

              Photobucket pages:
              http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

              Comment


              • #22
                Okay! Xover schematic has been finalized. Through the listening of more familiar cuts than before, the treble was a little hot/spitty. I upped the series resistor to 2.7 ohms from 2.2 ohms, and this resolved this issue. Depending on the room and placement, I'm providing a range of attenuation for the tweeter. Some may like a softer treble for music, but some may use this for movies and want more shimmer/impact. At the 2.7 ohm spot there is enough detail, and it's not overbearing. It is not bright at least by my standards. Hi-hats and snares aren't overly sharp either. My preference would be 2.7-3.3 ohms, but up to 4 ohms wouldn't be uncalled for depending on the person.

                FWIW, I did do an extensive stint in Xsim trying to see if I could do this cheaper and/or better the result. I had one result I tried, but I hated the sound of it. The woofer became shouty, and that is not where this should be. I'm really betting the dips below 1K are just reflections or floor-bounce, as they do not seem to need to be compensated. When compensated, they do get shouty.

                For those interested, please see the xover here:

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                Be advised that this could easily adapt to an on-wall or desktop use, because the BSC is minimal. Just rotate 90* for desktop. I included the dims for a reason, as the xover applies to this layout as they are.

                I'll be adding the subwoofer to the mix shortly and see what should be changed or amended. Due to the early rolloff inherent, I do not believe that a highpass should be a requirement at this point from sub to 'bar. The excursion is really well controlled in this damped-sealed alignment, and I think the SMSL might already have a light rolloff involved.

                More later,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #23
                  Being a Soundbar, the best I thought would be to use a barrier strip and ring terminals to wire this up. In retrospect, 2 strips per board would likely be a better idea. I used the 18" length of the tweeter lead and cut the lead for the midbass to match. Attaching them one at a time, I can get them secured just outside of the rear of the bar. Of course- the leads are glue-sealed where they exit their respective chambers. This means I can't change the length easily at this point. There is minimal slack inside the chamber, basically just enough for removal of the drivers if necessary. I did solder the leads to the PC105-4 for reliability.

                  I will be adding adhesive to key points on the xover boards to make sure they don't become unglued/ajar. This also prevents zip-tie failure being catastrophic. Since I unwound the on-hand coils to value, and wound the other 2 myself, I used the longer leads to my advantage. They should be far enough apart t keep mutual inductance low. FWIW, I did measure the values in place adjacent the steel barrier strip, and the 0.75mH coil value went up 0.015mH, so the effect is minimal. The barrier is wired amp (blue) +/-, tweeter +/-, woofer +/-, just for reference. I used jumpers on the ground connections. Boards are mirror-imaged to allow better connection positioning. The 2.7 ohm resistor is under the 0.22uF Dayton cap.

                  Pictures:
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                  Thanks for looking,
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Just for reference, the sub used with this is based on the TB W6-1139, in a vented 0.4ft^3 vented box. The dimensions are that of a long box with the driver in the side, the amp on the one end, and the rounded port exit on the other. External dimensions are 20" long, 7.5" deep, and 8.75" high with a 1.5" diameter x 10.5" long port. The box is made from 1/2" plywood. A single U-brace internally stiffens the plywood structure, and there is a little open cell foam inside, but not much. Tuning is approximately 30Hz (It's been about 14 years since I built this!) The 70W plate amp fits snugly in the end, flush with the sides of the enclosure.

                    Listening- this blend is fairly good! I have the sub xover set at 12-noon, and the gain at one click north of 12-noon. For this purpose/session, I have the sub sitting atop the bar for a close proximity setup.

                    I'm about to watch a movie...
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #25
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                      Not bad, eh?
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        BTW- I dropped the sub xover to 2 clicks below 12-noon. The spoken word of some actors on the movie I watched tended to be a bit chesty. This solved the issue.

                        I feel it sounds pretty good and clean as it sits!

                        Now to do the gluing of parts on the xovers to make them more permanent, and to install a back panel over them to keep out fingers and/or vermin in the chance they occur.
                        I'm still thinking about some 1A slow-blow fuses on the drivers for safety sake. We'll see if I get that far...

                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wait,,,,, someone who can hear differences in caps is going to put "FUSES" on the drivers?

                          Oh the Humanity!

                          Have Fun! Mark

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If one of their buddies decides to crank it to 11, I'd hate for the tweeters to give up the ghost.
                            Practicing safe use of electronics is a learned skill, but not all know the skill.
                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                            *InDIYana event website*

                            Photobucket pages:
                            http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Ok, I get it.

                              Put the fuses in,,,,, watch the SAME movie and,,,,,, tell me you DON’T hear a difference!

                              In your ears I trust!

                              Later, Mark

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                To be honest, I've actually done it before. I have not however done a comparison of fuse vs. switch-bypass.

                                Later,
                                Wolf
                                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                                *InDIYana event website*

                                Photobucket pages:
                                http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                                Comment

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