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Any tips for GRS 12SW-4 12" woofers?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by daryl View Post

    Looking at your pictures of your system I see your satellites are small.

    The 10's fit nicely under that end table.

    Are you sure you want to change it?

    I understand you have drivers on the way but it all goes together nicely the way you have it.
    Yes they're a gift and my wife is excited about helping with the construction, and I think they're going to be great, we will make them great.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by philthien View Post

      Oh come on, it isn't THAT bad, the room is going to play with the response anyhow.

      I'll get it tamed.
      I believe you will Phil

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      • #18
        Originally posted by daryl View Post

        I believe you will Phil
        Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?

        Christ I was excited about this.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by philthien View Post

          Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?

          Christ I was excited about this.
          No Phil I think I'm a comic genious.

          But I'm the only one who thinks so.

          Stay excited Phil and build the heck out those things with your wife and post updated pictures.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by daryl View Post

            No Phil I think I'm a comic genious.

            But I'm the only one who thinks so.

            Stay excited Phil and build the heck out those things with your wife and post updated pictures.
            You're coming off as super condescending and no I'm not going to post pictures and no I'm not coming back, you win.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by philthien View Post

              You're coming off as super condescending and no I'm not going to post pictures and no I'm not coming back, you win.
              Take it at face value Phil

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              • #22
                Originally posted by philthien View Post
                The rims of the drivers are kind of ugly, so I was thinking of rear-mounting it to the baffle. But I'd need access to the rear of the enclosure. So I could make the enclosure's rear removable and leave it off the cabinets initially and do some listening tests. If I don't like the sound, I could always put the back on and proceed as a sealed speaker.
                Hi Phil,

                I built a dual subwoofer for my son's car using the 10" drivers. I rear-mounted them to the baffle with a 3/4" round-over and they look pretty good that way.

                Based on your first post, I was going to suggest something similar in spirit, but less opinionated than Daryl - that if you are going to "upgrade" maybe a better driver is a better investment than bigger. However, given that they are on the way - enjoy the process of making something new with your wife.

                Hopefully you'll get more input on your actual questions in the first post about box size and peakiness (which apparently is not a word ). In the meantime, don't get frustrated with the whole forum based on a few unhelpful posts.

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                • #23
                  Phil,
                  have you tried modeling the GRS 12" sub with a passive radiator? Daytons pr runs $35 which is more than the subs, but it might help get the 50 Hz peak down to a more manageable level to start with. I haven't modeled it myself, just thinking out loud. It has 13 mm of X- mech. So if it modeled well, one per cab might do it.
                  TomZ
                  *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                  *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

                  *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by daryl View Post



                    It makes no sense to start with Fs at 30hz and Qts at 1 for a 12" 'subwoofer'.
                    Probably makes as much sense as calling a 6.5" driver with a 35 fs and .4 qts a subwoofer. Sure, neither of those drivers will play 20hz cleanly in a direct radiator configuration, but they will provide enough sub 80hz output to be useful. I actually like sealed systems with a nice system Q of 1.2-1.3 for rock music. I'm guessing with a sealed box of 2 cubic feet it will play to 35 hz with a nice bump for kick drums.

                    The excursion of 8.25 mm is pretty beefy for a budget driver. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive from customers.

                    The only advice I have is make sure you you run this thing sealed, in a box no smaller than 1.5 cubic feet with no air leaks, and with the nice excursion you could probably get away with some boost at 40hz without over excursion before you hit the thermal limit at 120 Watts.

                    Since this driver has a Q of over .707, the larger the box the smoother the response. So go as big as you can get away with, caulk it well, and apply some boost.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                      Phil,
                      have you tried modeling the GRS 12" sub with a passive radiator? Daytons pr runs $35 which is more than the subs, but it might help get the 50 Hz peak down to a more manageable level to start with. I haven't modeled it myself, just thinking out loud. It has 13 mm of X- mech. So if it modeled well, one per cab might do it.
                      TomZ
                      Thanks Tom. I had figured I'd get the same peaky nature I was getting when simulating a ported enclosure, so I hadn't considered it. I'll look into it some more.

                      I did a little more research on the effects of stuffing and found an old thread that told me how to adjust the parameters in WinISD to simulate highly stuffed boxes.

                      When comparing the current box for the 10" drivers, which is enormously stuffed, to my proposed overstuffed box for the 12", the difference in the peak is minimal, about +1db. And my predicted f3 drops from about 47-Hz to 35-Hz. I'll look into the passive radiator and if that doesn't pan out, I can go with the sealed.

                      So I think I'll be able to get what I wanted to achieve, which is a little less excursion and maybe a little more output when I'm adding my LF boost @ 30-Hz.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by a4eaudio View Post

                        Hi Phil,

                        I built a dual subwoofer for my son's car using the 10" drivers. I rear-mounted them to the baffle with a 3/4" round-over and they look pretty good that way.

                        Based on your first post, I was going to suggest something similar in spirit, but less opinionated than Daryl - that if you are going to "upgrade" maybe a better driver is a better investment than bigger. However, given that they are on the way - enjoy the process of making something new with your wife.

                        Hopefully you'll get more input on your actual questions in the first post about box size and peakiness (which apparently is not a word ). In the meantime, don't get frustrated with the whole forum based on a few unhelpful posts.
                        One thing I've learned with the dual 10" system is that the room (and my position in it) has so much to do with the response, that I figured the 12" would simply buy me more output and better handle my 30-Hz boost.

                        I didn't want to exacerbate room mode issues by having an extremely peaky result, but when you play with the parameters for WinISD it becomes clear that stuffing the snot out of the 12" box (as I did with the 10") really tames that peak quite a bit. Now it is about +1db over the 10", but I buy some extension and if I make some sort of adjustable aperiodic port on my CNC router, I can probably further reduce that peak and we can have some fun and learn something in the process.

                        I think it is going to be fine. I'll model passive radiators somehow, per Tom's suggestion, but I think it will be fine.

                        And I realize this isn't everyone's cup of tea. That is fine, too.

                        Edit to add: Oh, and that is pretty much how I plan on mounting these, I think it would look pretty sharp.

                        IMHO, I think the sound of these drivers is great and if I can hide that inexpensive looking basket I'll bet I can fool quite a few people in to thinking these are pretty high $$$ units.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You might enjoy looking at the "Fast, fun, inexpensive OB" project on diyaudio; they are using a 15" GRS woofer. I might even build one next spring.

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                          • #28
                            I have found that flat response (bass wise) is Very over-rated.
                            Often some of the more listenable systems I have heard, where somewhat higher "Q" than the ideal flat would be and they tended to sound more fuller and enjoyable.

                            Just saying, the room and listener location mess with the bass even more than a somewhat High Q alignment does, its just all part of the overall sound.

                            Those GRS subs have gotten quite good reviews overall, so they must be at least fairly good.
                            For the price perhaps a great bargain!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Phil, I like your system just fine. Do you still like those chip amps with the big power supplies?

                              I have an SMSL amp for my PC 2.1, plenty loud. I'm thinking of getting another for the high freq drivers in my LXMinis.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by djg View Post
                                Phil, I like your system just fine. Do you still like those chip amps with the big power supplies?

                                I have an SMSL amp for my PC 2.1, plenty loud. I'm thinking of getting another for the high freq drivers in my LXMinis.
                                I'm still a huge fan of the SMSL amps and the Meanwell power supplies.

                                I'd be happy to demo the system to anyone in the greater Milwaukee area.

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