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  • Max / Recommended added weight for a passive radiator?

    Hi,
    I'm thinking about using the PE DSA315-PR in a new build.
    It has 142.6 G mms, but I seem to remember that there is a maximum of added weight or "bad things happen".
    Does anyone know what that ratio (stock G to added G) is?
    Dayton Audio DSA315-PR 12" Designer Series Aluminum Cone Passive Radiator

    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
    SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
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  • #2
    It really depends on how strong the suspension is. Too much weight and the suspension will bend since it can't hold the cone straight anymore, creating some non-linear behaviour. Many manufacturers will specify a max weight, I'm sure Dayton could provide you with some guideline if you asked them.
    "I just use off the shelf textbook filters designed for a resistor of 8 ohms with
    exactly a Fc 3K for both drivers, anybody can do it." -Xmax

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dcibel View Post
      It really depends on how strong the suspension is. Too much weight and the suspension will bend since it can't hold the cone straight anymore, creating some non-linear behaviour. Many manufacturers will specify a max weight, I'm sure Dayton could provide you with some guideline if you asked them.
      Yep, but they are closed today. Good for them. Everyone needs some downtime.

      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

      Tangband W6-sub

      Comment


      • #4
        Don,

        I remember reading something about PE's suggestion on adding weight to their PR's...

        the maximum recommended weight added should be no more than existing mass plus 60%
        per what Matt P mentioned in the Q and A section on one of the designer series PR pages as mentioned in this post:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...52#post1285852

        Looks to be about 228 grams total, or add no more than about 85 grams,
        if you follow that rule of thumb.

        I've got a few of the 10" versions of that aluminum PR coming in a few days, I'm looking forward to comparing it to the paper version in appearance. Looks like a sexy drone cone!

        TomZ
        *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
        *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

        *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Tom - I forgot that you used that recon ebony on some of those little subs. I just got a sheet of.
          I'll model the box using a 60% limit. May have to bump up to a larger PR....
          Jeff B recently posted a long thread about the advantages of a PR over a port, and that, combined with
          the great pricing on the new PE DSA PRs has got me going for more PRs, less ports.
          Plus, I just realized that a large PR gives you a convenient access hole if you need to get to the interior after glueup.

          I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
          "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

          High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
          SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
          My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

          Tangband W6-sub

          Comment


          • #6
            I've made up this PR chart (it's formatted for a plain text editor - so it might look a bit funky w/out some work). The biggest unknown (for most PRs) is added mass limit !


            PRs @ PE Adding MASS > +^ -v (Xmech)
            Peerless: Vas/cf Qms Fs Sd/sc Xmax OD (Sd*X?)
            $ 10 264-1060 830878 3.5" 0.10 10.0 29 50.2 ?5<3? 4.9 ?3oo? 40?-5o
            830880 5.2" 0.37 10.0 23 87 6.0
            Dayton: {DS prs cheaper than DSAs} 2/5 (20) 9/27
            $ 8 290-205 ND65-PR 2.5" 0.02 2.69 73.0 15.6 5.0 2.6 1x 4.3g disk
            $ 10 290-209 ND90-PR 3.5" 0.05 6.15 53.8 31.2 9? 4.1 2x 7.3g disks
            $.10+295-491 DS90-PR 3 " 0.124 5.9 42.4 31.2 4.0 3.7 12o ? ?
            $ 11-295-542 DSA90-PR 3 " 0.124 5.72 43.7 31.2 4.0 3.7 12o ? ?
            $.11+295-493 DS115-PR 4 " 0.33 3.66 29.3 54.1 6.0 4.6 32o ? ?
            $ 12 290-213 ND105-PR 4 " 0.09 5.93 51.5 51.5 6? 4.2 2x 21.8g disks
            $.12+295-495 DS135-PR 5 " 0.43 3.93 27.7 75.4 8.0 5.4 60o ? ?
            $ 12-295-544 DSA115-PR 4 " 0.33 3.48 30.9 54.1 6.0 4.6 32o (wt.limit?)
            $ 13-295-546 DSA135-PR 5 " 0.43 3.7 27.9 75.4 8.0 5.4 60o ? ?
            $.14 295-498 DS175-PR 6.5" 0.61 1.8??_30.2_ 128.7 8.0 7.0 103o 60?
            $ 14 290-217 ND140-PR 5.2" 0.30 4.02 44.2 86.6 9.0 5.5 2x 18.5g disks
            $_15 295-548_DSA175-PR 6.5" 0.95 4.30 26.8 128.7 8.0 7.0 103o ? ?
            $.18 295-492sdDS215-PR 8 " 1.40 7.34 23.3 194 9.0 8.6 175o 75?
            $ 20 295-549 DSA215-PR 8 " 1.30 7.66 25.6 211.2 11.0 8.5 232o ? ?
            $.27 295-494sdDS270-PR 10" 3.90 3.98 19.5 340 10.0 10.7 340o ?90(19oWolf)
            $ 28 295-552 DSA270-PR 10" 3.74 5.26 21.9 353 11.0 10.7 388o ? ?
            $.34 295-496sdDS315-PR 12" 5.20 4.27 17 480 10.0 12.4 480o 100?
            $_36 295-554_DSA315-PR_12" 6.74 6.23 17.5 480 13.0 12.4 624o ? ?
            $ 75 295-500 RSS265-PR 10" 2.11 4.92 19.6 356.3 24 10.6 8.5k! +5 75g disk
            $ 90 295-502 RSS315-PR 12" 2.79 4.79 21 506.7 26 12.4 13.2k +6 disks
            $120 295-504 RSS390-PR 15" _7.51_ 4.01 _18.2_ 829.6 30 15.3 24.9k +7 disks
            $140 295-506 RSS460-PR 18" 15.9 5.03 14.7 1164 34 18.2 40ooo +8 disks
            Vas/cf Qms Fs Sd/sc Xmax OD

            (wish I could store these in WinISD somehow?)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by donradick View Post
              Thanks Tom - I forgot that you used that recon ebony on some of those little subs. I just got a sheet of.
              I'll model the box using a 60% limit. May have to bump up to a larger PR....
              Jeff B recently posted a long thread about the advantages of a PR over a port, and that, combined with
              the great pricing on the new PE DSA PRs has got me going for more PRs, less ports.
              Plus, I just realized that a large PR gives you a convenient access hole if you need to get to the interior after glueup.
              Don, would you happen to remember where you saw that thread Jeff posted regarding PR's? I did a search and couldn't come up with it.

              TomZ
              *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
              *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

              *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                Don,

                I remember reading something about PE's suggestion on adding weight to their PR's...

                the maximum recommended weight added should be no more than existing mass plus 60%
                per what Matt P mentioned in the Q and A section on one of the designer series PR pages as mentioned in this post:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...52#post1285852

                Looks to be about 228 grams total, or add no more than about 85 grams,
                if you follow that rule of thumb.

                I've got a few of the 10" versions of that aluminum PR coming in a few days, I'm looking forward to comparing it to the paper version in appearance. Looks like a sexy drone cone!

                TomZ
                What may be ADDED is 160% of Mms, not 60%. Even this ROT does not apply to all PR's as there are a lot of variables at play.
                Don't worry, if your parachute fails, you have the rest of your life to fix it.

                If we all did the things we are capable of doing, we would literally ASTOUND ourselves - Thomas A. Edison

                Some people collect stamps, Imelda Marcos collected shoes. I collect speakers.:D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post

                  Don, would you happen to remember where you saw that thread Jeff posted regarding PR's? I did a search and couldn't come up with it.

                  TomZ
                  Over on Facebook - "DIY Loudspeaker Pad" - Javad, Jeff B and another guy are admins. Love to have you there.
                  It was a great writeup on PR use and benefits.

                  I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                  "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                  High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                  SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                  My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                  Tangband W6-sub

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thekorvers View Post

                    What may be ADDED is 160% of Mms, not 60%. Even this ROT does not apply to all PR's as there are a lot of variables at play.
                    Thanks Man! I was pretty sure (age-related-memory bitrot) that you could add over 100%, but in any case, I'll call PE when they reopen and ask them
                    to document their recommendations, or I'll publish it here.

                    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                    High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                    SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                    My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                    Tangband W6-sub

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry about posting possibly misleading information...

                      This was the info posted on the 6.5" PR as I mentioned above...

                      __________________________________________________ _
                      How much added mass can these handle safely?

                      CPop78 on Mar 4, 2015 BEST ANSWER: I usually recommend no more than about 60% of the Mms of the passive for these.
                      • MattP on Mar 4, 2015
                      • __________________________________________________ __________
                      That info was posted in the Q & A section on this 6.5" PR:
                      https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...iator--295-498

                      That was where I got my 'line of thinking' from... but I think the Reference Series of passives could handle more than 60% of existing mass quite easily.
                      It would be great if PE would supply a 'max added weight at Xmax' spec to their PR's so we know how far we can push them weight-wise.


                      Thanks Don for the info on the PR article... I'll check it out... Obviously I'm still learning!

                      TomZ






                      *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                      *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

                      *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Tom - agree that PE needs to specify this. It's a critical aspect of using their product.

                        I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                        "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                        High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                        SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                        My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                        Tangband W6-sub

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think adding a max of 160% is a good rule of thumb. The RSS315-PR for example, has a 300g mms and comes with 6 disks that are 75 g each, which is 150%.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know the old SD PRs used to have it in their spec sheet. The SD215PR is good for 250g, but I don't know if that is max or added.

                            Later,
                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
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                            • #15
                              Prize goes to 1100xxxben - looks like 150% or so is max.

                              Gotta recap my phone call to PE today:
                              Guy answers, I explain my question, he says "Well, look at that M5 bolt, you can only add so much weight"
                              I say "But at a certain added weight the response will become non-linear, or the PR will have physical damage in the surround or spider"
                              He says, look at the RSS265 PR - you can add a max of 150% with the included weights.

                              So until I hear differently, I'll model with 150% max added weight.

                              <smile>

                              I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                              "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                              High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                              SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                              My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                              Tangband W6-sub

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