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Seas nextel vs peerless for OB Mid

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  • Seas nextel vs peerless for OB Mid

    I am currently using a Peerless 830883 in OB configuration from 300 -1.8khz. I would like to go to a larger driver say the 8 inch Seas Nextel (not mag). I know the nextel are much more expensive, but should I realize a performance improvement? distortion wise? I am thinking the larger driver will handle the lower end better and may be a smoother sound overall. Thanks. (BTW this is mated to a Satori TW29)

  • #2
    This is an active system?

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    • #3
      Have you done any distortion measurements with the 830883? In my OB setup I see very low distortion even baffleless and up to fairly high levels. Also no obvious motor or spider noise due to the phase plug and open basket.

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      • #4
        Jim - I haven't heard that Seas nextel, but I recently built the Revolutions by Jeff Bagby that uses the SB Satori MR13P (sorry, can't link, but it's at that Michigan place)
        I could not be happier with the smoothness and resolution. Best I've heard. You could use a pair as MTM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by civit View Post
          This is an active system?
          No this is passive, no EQ

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kclb1540 View Post
            Have you done any distortion measurements with the 830883? In my OB setup I see very low distortion even baffleless and up to fairly high levels. Also no obvious motor or spider noise due to the phase plug and open basket.
            I have not Fr and phase only

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            • #7
              Originally posted by donradick View Post
              Jim - I haven't heard that Seas nextel, but I recently built the Revolutions by Jeff Bagby that uses the SB Satori MR13P (sorry, can't link, but it's at that Michigan place)
              I could not be happier with the smoothness and resolution. Best I've heard. You could use a pair as MTM.
              I did do a build with the MW16, excellent driver but does not work will in this application, I find OB I would only use it down to about 500hz lowest

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              • #8
                Jim,

                Whatever driver(s) you are considering, take some time to think about the rear radiation. I have found that smaller drivers can have a large difference between front and rear radiation above 1kHz. I bought and measured a pair of MR13P's because of their excellent in-box measurements. Unfortunately I found them to be not a great candidate for OB work for a variety of factors.

                I try to look for as large a driver as possible given how high I want to stretch the passband. You can get some 10" drivers up to 1.5kHz or so depending on the cone breakup. How low you can operate a driver in an OB type speaker depends on how large of a baffle you will be using and how close to the edge the driver will be mounted. The more central in a large baffle the less low frequency loss but the worse the extent of OB dipole peaking and the lower the dipole peak in frequency. I started building systems using no baffle at all because of this - the dipole peak is moved up as high as possible (for a particular driver), off axis response tends to be much like the on-axis response, and peaking and other issues in the frequency response are minimized. But at the same time you have more bass cancellation. It does help to use high sensitivity drivers, and pro audio 10" drivers with >95dB/W sensitivity can work. Some examples are the Faital Pro 10FE200 or the Eminence Deltalite II 2510. I am attaching front and rear measurements of the latter, taken with the driver suspended in free air by wires, with about 50Hz resolution. Can't quite use it up to 1.8kHz, but 1.2k-1.5kHz might be doable.

                Eminence Deltalite II 2510 - Front Measurements at 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90 degrees (top to bottom)
                Click image for larger version  Name:	Eminence Deltalite II 2510 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90deg 70cm front.PNG Views:	2 Size:	31.0 KB ID:	1400900

                Eminence Deltalite II 2510 - Rear Measurements at 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90 degrees (top to bottom)
                Click image for larger version  Name:	Eminence Deltalite II 2510 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90deg 70cm rear.PNG Views:	2 Size:	32.4 KB ID:	1400901
                Charlie's Audio Pages: http://audio.claub.net

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                • #9
                  My MR13P measurements. Same conditions as above.

                  When you look at it, the MR13P LOOKS like it would be perfect for OB use. Unfortunately, the strong and sharp peak/dip in the front/rear response can't be "fixed" even with active/DSP filtering. Too bad, otherwise the driver was very nice, but this is right smack in the middle of where I wanted to use it. I find that somewhat larger drivers have fewer of these issues.


                  Click image for larger version  Name:	SB Acoustics MR13P-4 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90deg 16in front.PNG Views:	1 Size:	28.3 KB ID:	1400903

                  Rear:
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	SB Acoustics MR13P-4 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90deg 16in rear.PNG Views:	1 Size:	29.6 KB ID:	1400904
                  Charlie's Audio Pages: http://audio.claub.net

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                  • #10
                    One driver you might consider is the SB Acoustics SB17MFC35. I tested the 4 Ohm version. Has a smooth and relatively easy to work with response front and rear. Still a bit of that peak/dip around 800Hz, but less severe and not right in the most sensitive part of one's hearing like the MR13P. You could use this driver up through 2kHz and probably down to 300Hz with some baffle loading, or 500Hz without any baffle.

                    FRONT:
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-4 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90deg 16in front.PNG
Views:	1
Size:	31.7 KB
ID:	1400906


                    REAR:

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-4 0-11-22-33-44-55-67-78-90deg 16in rear.PNG
Views:	1
Size:	32.6 KB
ID:	1400907
                    Charlie's Audio Pages: http://audio.claub.net

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                    • #11
                      I think you'll find quit similar behaviour of the 830883 as the SB17MFC35.
                      "I just use off the shelf textbook filters designed for a resistor of 8 ohms with
                      exactly a Fc 3K for both drivers, anybody can do it." -Xmax

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                      • #12
                        Thank you all for responding, my baffle will be winged like GR Research. I guess the front will be about 13 inch and the wins can be what they need to be, one driver that was suggested isa Beyma 8 inch. Has a high Q.

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                        • #13
                          Actually I put the Peerless right up there with the Seas perfomance wise. I wouldn't use the Excel mag cone with the Hiq tweeter as it can't extend high enough to mate with it, however the Nextel can work.

                          I would say the Peerless has better upper end performance than the Mag cone Excel. You start to hit a 3rd HD disortion peak at 1.6k with the Excel. Midbass performance is fairly close between the two.

                          The Nextel has better lower end midrange performance and much better midbass performance than the Peerless, but they start to even up in the upper midrange.


                          To sum it all up,

                          Excel - best resolution and detail in the lower to mid-midrange untill about 1.2k, good midbass performance.

                          Nextel - Best lower midrange, good upper midrange, awesome midbass performance. Just an all around great driver for any 2-way application.

                          Peerless - Good lower midrange, good upper midrange, decent midbass performance. Good for any 2-way at a cheaper price than the Nextel.


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                          Last edited by bougti; 01-29-2019, 10:19 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for a very descriptive answer. I was not considering the Excel. The nextels are quite expensive though.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seoking
                              Peerless exclusive mid/bass are very well built, comparable to Seas Excel. I agree with everything Dylan has said. I've replaced my Nextel drivers with Exclusives 830883 simply based on price alone, and the fact that I don't need that extra mid/bass output below 80hz. However I find many people are so impressed by the "mini-sub" capabilites of the Nextel coupled with it's world class midrange.
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