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Finalist speakers, Tower version. Advice needed concerning TL vs Ported

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  • #46
    As long as you build the TL section as shown in my drawing with the correct dimensions and locations of woofer and port you'll be okay.
    Paul

    Originally posted by Paperweight View Post
    Well, I did that right then. PE had 3" x 4" unflared ports for 98 cents and I did buy 2. I was almost tempted to buy the Precision Port kits. Good thing I asked. Thanks!

    I'm tempted to break the cabinet into two parts with the tweeter and mid in the top cab and the woofer in the bottom cab. I guess I could move the top panel that encloses the woofer section down 3/4" and extend the bottom panel down by that much to make up the difference. I could use 1/2" ply in the bottom of the tweeter and mid cabinet with about a 1/4" gap I could use for a mounting scheme and to decouple the vibrations of the woofer cabinet from the top.

    It certainly would make working on each half so much easier. Also, even in Baltic birch, this thing is going to be heavy.

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    • #47
      I had the cabinets made by someone in flatpack form. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the 4 main 3/4" thick panels be 43" in length? They were cut to 42 1/4". I believe the cabinet guy forgot to factor in the solid divider panel. This is going to be ugly.

      Comment


      • djg
        djg commented
        Editing a comment
        I had some old guys at a big box store cut a 4x8 sheet into parts for a dollhouse long ago. They screwed it up. They got nasty with me when I pointed out their error. Be careful, it's only wood.

    • #48
      I don't happen to have a drawing for the complete Finalists cabinet and don't know what its height dimension was. All I did was model an ML-TL for the woofer section. You can see on the drawing earlier in this thread for that section that all of the dimensions I show are INTERNAL dimensions because that's what the modeling software uses. If someone wanted to use 1"-thick cabinet walls they could as long as the internal dimensions I show were correct.
      Paul

      Originally posted by Paperweight View Post
      I had the cabinets made by someone in flatpack form. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the 4 main 3/4" thick panels be 43" in length? They were cut to 42 1/4". I believe the cabinet guy forgot to factor in the solid divider panel. This is going to be ugly.

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      • #49
        I could be wrong, but if only 3/4” off it should be ok.

        Originally posted by Paperweight View Post
        I had the cabinets made by someone in flatpack form. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the 4 main 3/4" thick panels be 43" in length? They were cut to 42 1/4". I believe the cabinet guy forgot to factor in the solid divider panel. This is going to be ugly.

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        • #50
          Originally posted by dld View Post
          I could be wrong, but if only 3/4” off it should be ok.


          No way, I don't do good enough. I'm too hard core type A for that to pass muster. It would mess up the volume of the ML-TL. I had previosly had everything glued in place correctly for the ML-TL before I discovered the correct placement of the solid panel was going to push the mid tunnel mounts way off center. Knocked it all back apart causing the baltic birch face to tearout.

          Now I'm at square one and have three 4 X 8 sheets of 3/4" BB and one 5 X 5 sheet of 1/2" BB. I have a compact router and plunge base along with a Jasper circle jig for compact routers due to arrive. If you want something done right, do it yourself. This will be interesting.

          Edit: Upon further inspection, almost every dimention of this cabinet is completely off. He seems to have followed a plan that was nothing like the original Finalists/Travelers. He made something wider and shorter than you would expect and put pocket screws so the front and side panels are assembled opposite of the original plan. I paid extra for biscuits to help with assembly. Even they were off kilter.
          Last edited by Paperweight; 04-12-2021, 06:40 PM.

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          • #51
            3/4 of an inch will make no discernable difference in the sound, but by all means redo the box...

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            • #52
              Originally posted by Paperweight View Post

              No way, I don't do good enough. I'm too hard core type A for that to pass muster. It would mess up the volume of the ML-TL. I had previosly had everything glued in place correctly for the ML-TL before I discovered the correct placement of the solid panel was going to push the mid tunnel mounts way off center. Knocked it all back apart causing the baltic birch face to tearout.

              Now I'm at square one and have three 4 X 8 sheets of 3/4" BB and one 5 X 5 sheet of 1/2" BB. I have a compact router and plunge base along with a Jasper circle jig for compact routers due to arrive. If you want something done right, do it yourself. This will be interesting.
              oh kay

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              • #53
                Using the 3/4" thick inner front baffle with holes for the speakers for this explanation, the mid center is 8 1/4" from the top with the top panel in place. Without the 3/4" thick top panel, it is 7 1/2" from the top edge of the front panel to the mid center. The parts that hold the mid in place are 7 1/2". Cut that in half you have 3 3/4". Add that to the mid center line mark for 11 1/4" and the solid panel goes under that adding 3/4" for 12" total down the front panel without the top panel in place. Paul K's diagram measures from the bottom of that solid divider panel to above the bottom panel for 31 1/4". That is the TL center panel that is 24 7/8" plus the 6 3/8" to the bottom of the panel that seals the top of the woofer section. So the panel(s) have to be 43 1/4" for it to all fit. Add the top and bottom 3/4" panels for another 1 1/2" inches to get the total height of 44 3/4".

                I think I figured this up right. So now it was off by an inch. It probably doesn't matter but it would bug me to no end. As mentioned, it was already messed up to the point of the TL being somewhat correct and glued with yellow PVA wood glue in place but the woofer enclosure top panel was going to interfere with the mid tunnel by that inch the cabinet was off by. What was I supposed to do? I'm not a woodworker and I stupidly assumed the cabinet guy knew what he was doing. This is extremely frustrating.
                Last edited by Paperweight; 04-05-2021, 09:11 AM.

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                • #54
                  This took a little while to draw up. The scanner cut off the bottom measurement of 15 1/2" for the total width including the outer front baffle. I haven't put this much effort into a pencil drawing since 1994 in drafting class. I wasn't very good at it but I hope this is passable and readable.

                  Cut List:

                  Inner front baffle and Back panel: 43 1/4" X 9 1/2" 3/4" thick, 2 per speaker
                  Outer front baffle: 44 3/4" X 11" ** 1/2" thick **, 1 per speaker
                  Side Panels: 44 3/4" X 15" 3/4" thick, 2 per speaker
                  Top and Bottom panel: 9 1/2" X 15" 3/4" thick, 2 per speaker

                  PVC support panels: 9 1/2" X 7 1/2" 3/4" thick, 2 per speaker
                  Inner Solid panel for top of woofer section: 13 1/2" X 9 1/2" 3/4: thick, 1 per speaker
                  ML-TL main center panel: 24 7/8" X 9 1/2" 3/4" thick, 1 per speaker
                  Window Braces: 9 1/2" X 6 3/8" 3/4" thick, 4 per speaker

                  I believe this is correct but I'm not 100% sure. Any corrections would be HIGHLY appreciated before any poor baltic birch plywood is further wasted.

                  For some weird reason, my cabinet builder made the mid tunnel supports 7 inches instead of 7 1/2" which is strange since he regularly builds Cambell Holtz speaker cabinets. I need to get him a PDF copy of the instructions if I can get Meniscus to answer an email.

                  This whole thing is turning into a bad comedy of errors. I was mad at first but now I'm at the point of laughing about it all.
                  Last edited by Paperweight; 04-05-2021, 09:30 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Paul K.
                    Paul K. commented
                    Editing a comment
                    For the ML-TL compartment, the dimensions shown on your drawing match those on my drawing I included early in this thread. Don't forget that the front half of the folded line is filled with polyester fiber top to bottom at a density of 0.75 lb/ft3.Paul

                  • Paperweight
                    Paperweight commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I didn't know it was supposed to be in the front half only. Thanks for that tip. I assume an even spread across the front. Anything special for treatment behind the woofer?
                    Last edited by Paperweight; 04-06-2021, 10:36 PM.

                • #55
                  Also a question for Jim Holtz if he is around. Meniscus sent a printed instruction sheet that is copy pasted from the Finalist speakers. It includes the bit about plugging the mid tunnel and the recess on the back panel for that. I believe I have seen you say somewhere that was not an option for the Travelers design. How should the PVC tunnel be mounted between and inside the support braces (caulking or weather stripping for air seal?) and what is the proper material and way of stuffing the mid tunnel to stop standing waves? Thanks!

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                  • #56
                    I'm not a woodworker so I need some clarity on a couple of points to help explain what is needed when I find someone to cut this out correctly for the second time.

                    Under the key notes on the instruction sheet

                    1. There is a 1/2 inch recess in the mid-tunnel brace to counter-sink the 6 inch PVC pipe.

                    Which brace is that? The one in the front or the back of the cabinet? Apparently that was confusing or completely ignored by my cabinet guy. He just cut 6 5/8" holes through both braces clean through along with cutting the braces 9 1/2" x 7" instead of the required 9 1/2" X 7 1/2". I'm still shaking my head on that.

                    2. There is a 1/2" recess in the mid-tunnel cutout in the rear baffle (in case you want to plug the mid-tunnel)

                    Is this on the inside or outside of the back panel? Might seem like a dumb question but after the relatively simple braces were cut wrong, it is worth asking to save on further mistakes. I most likely won't plug the tunnel though.

                    Any clarity on both questions would be appreciated. A photo of properly cut braces and a properly routed back panel would be worth it's weight in gold.

                    Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #57
                      Originally posted by Paperweight View Post
                      Also a question for Jim Holtz if he is around. Meniscus sent a printed instruction sheet that is copy pasted from the Finalist speakers. It includes the bit about plugging the mid tunnel and the recess on the back panel for that. I believe I have seen you say somewhere that was not an option for the Travelers design. How should the PVC tunnel be mounted between and inside the support braces (caulking or weather stripping for air seal?) and what is the proper material and way of stuffing the mid tunnel to stop standing waves? Thanks!
                      Sorry, I've been in Arizona for the last couple months and just returned home.

                      So to answer your question, the mid tunnel is attached the same as the Finalist and is glued in place with the support. The difference is, the Travelers do not have the option of a closed back mid so the recess is not necessary. The stuffing instructions should have been included in the kit. If not, email me and I'll get yu the info.
                      HTH

                      Jim

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                      • #58
                        One other thing I noticed while perusing over the Finalists and Travelers cabinet drawings. The Finalists specifies a 13" PVC pipe while the Travelers states a 13 1/2" pipe. Both have the same internal width of 13 1/2" front to back. I understand the 13" pipe length used in the Finalists if both the front and back braces have a 1/4" lip the PVC pipe sits on. Is this not the same in the Travelers? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

                        ***Still not sure where this recess in the back panel is to tell someone to leave it out. Is it on the inside or out? Depth, width and a recess are so hard to guage in a non-exploded drawing where everything is assembled already. There's 3 or 4 edges to try to squint at and make sense of on that back panel.

                        Is this recess for the mid plug (not going to use it, just need to know where it is so I understand this clearly when it gets messed up again) cut from the outside of the back panel? Depth of 1/2" x 1/2" wide leaving a 1/4" thick lip? Almost need a machinist drawing of the piece to figure this out.

                        I think my cabinet guy might have cut that part out when I really didn't need it. Go figure.

                        Looked at what he cut. Appears to be a 7" hole with 1/2" deep recess, 1" wide. So I assume without that, it is just a plain 6" hole?
                        Last edited by Paperweight; 04-07-2021, 01:07 PM.

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                        • #59
                          [QUOTE=
                          ***Still not sure where this recess in the back panel is to tell someone to leave it out. Is it on the inside or out? Depth and a recess are so hard to guage in a non-exploded drawing where everything is assembled already. There's 3 or 4 edges to try to squint at and make sense of on that back panel.

                          Is this recess for the mid plug (not going to use it, just need to know where it is so I understand this clearly when it gets messed up again) cut from the outside of the back panel? Depth of 1/2" x 1/2" wide leaving a 1/4" thick lip? Almost need a machinist drawing of the piece to figure this out..[/QUOTE]

                          The Travelers are similar to the Finalists in mounting the 6" PVC. Perhaps this is what the recess refers to. The area that accepts the 6" PVC pipe.

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                          • Paperweight
                            Paperweight commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I was talking about the back panel. The arrow is pointing at the back of the front panel.

                        • #60
                          Originally posted by sam View Post

                          The Travelers are similar to the Finalists in mounting the 6" PVC. Perhaps this is what the recess refers to. The area that accepts the 6" PVC pipe.
                          Just ignore the external mid tube recess which was for the mid tube plug that is not used on the Travelers.

                          Here are the key notes from the documentation;

                          1. The 6 5/8” OD PVC pipe is cut to 13 ½” in length to allow it to butt against the inner front and rear
                          baffles and be glued in place. The inner front and rear PVC support panels position them and provide a solid front/rear connection when they and the PVC are all glued together.
                          2. Ignore the 7” ( ½”) recess cutout. It was originally intended for an option on the Finalist cabinet to
                          plug the mid but no closed back mid crossover was designed for the Travelers so don’t cut the Travelers Speakers Cabinet Drawing-updated.pdf recess.
                          3. Holes in window brace are flexible – please just leave 2inches on the front/back/sides for rigidity
                          4. Port size is 2.5inches in diameter and 7 3/4in in length

                          Also Curt posted a TL cabinet for those that were interested for the Finalist long ago that should help in the layout. I've never built a TL cabinet so I don't know if Curt's or Pauls are different. Check with Paul for that.

                          HTH

                          Jim
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