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  • #31
    Don't you box-model?
    Below 200-300Hz the box model takes precedence for FR, except for room modes.
    Plus, it would depend on where you low-pass it.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
      Don't you box-model?
      Below 200-300Hz the box model takes precedence for FR, except for room modes.
      Plus, it would depend on where you low-pass it.
      you fellers are at a different level than me.......i'm just now learning about schroeder frequency and modal dynamics and several other '(insert last name here)' theory.

      there is an app for my ipad that i think relates called 'speaker box lite' by alexi abdulin......might give it a shot.

      but like i said my computing power is limited, and there isn't a whole lot in the budget for testing equipment......i suppose it would pay off in time and energy spent.

      i'm a hands on kinda person, are there any forum members in the FL panhandle area that would like to school someone in the finer aspects of sound modeling? I'm a master craftsman that brings 40+ yrs of cabinet and furniture making skills to the table.

      if i knew how to do this stuff i'd be telling people what they need instead of asking what i need!

      i sure do appreciate all the help, another member turned me on to the denovo audio stuff.......now this erich feller seems like my kind!

      bob

      edit..... the low pass on the two in question is going to be 'experimentally high' to see how a mid bass system might work.....as in a pro 'bottom' . my low pass and high pass to mains are both adjustable up to 200hz

      and may get a another 'ultra subwoofer' to incorporate for the really low stuff

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
        Don't you box-model?
        Below 200-300Hz the box model takes precedence for FR, except for room modes.
        Plus, it would depend on where you low-pass it.
        been playing with this 'speaker box' app and get the same basic numbers your getting (with a 450 mm slot depth).....says fb 34.7 and f3 37.8 f10 looks about 20

        numbers look ok for what i want.......worth a try or what? that woofer is backordered till 3/5 but it'll probably take me that long to make the boxes.

        it ain't gonna take much arm twisting ! these will be powered by a behringer nx3000dsp which should be plenty. later i can reassess if i need to add a single 18" er for the bottom with another nx3000d

        cool thing about the behringer is it has lp and hp with slopes up to 48db (at least thats how i read it)

        would you do it? i think that driver is an all round keeper...... worst case scenario i'd have to rebuild the boxes.

        edit; would the reduced throat entrance screw anything up ? it would now be a 44mm wide entrance to a 40mm throat

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        • #34
          not wanting to go on record supporting something one considers asanine is relatable!

          i'm gonna go ahead and commit to this on my own accord so....disclaimer- any help from this point on would just be sympathy for the village idiot without personal culpability! lol

          next questions would be;

          1) PE policy when a item is backordered, does one go ahead and buy it and wait ......or just get on the email list and buy it when it comes in? i'd rather be sure i'm going to get them by pre paying if possible.

          2) i remember rebuilding a set of bic venturi 12" model?? they were slot vented in roughly the same dimensions in relation to box size (slot depth went almost to back of box) and i remember they had a half round piece of (2" or so) hard styrofoam glued across the mouth of the slot inside the box.
          i don't remember which eminence i used to replace the driver ....might have been a beta? but anyways they had that mid bass hit i like......wondering if that half round piece helps anything maybe in regards to port turbulence?

          3) if these are placed on the floor and intended to go into the upper bass region( say 160hz) from what i gather over 100hz has more reflectivity so is that angled woofer done with that in mind?

          and yes i realize that this will get into the stereo mix but they will be in the stereo configuration......with a 2-way top , crossed appropriatly; i'm seeing this no different from a pair of large three way's without a sub, which as stated earlier another sub can be added if needed.

          i don't think it's too stoopid.....but i will listen to constructive criticism!


          thanks, bob


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          • #35
            the 390HO-4 in there (the orig. box) and extend the slot all the way across the back (18" long) you'll get an F3 in the low 30s.
            It can take 800wRMS down into the upper 20s, yielding 120dB @ 40Hz
            Not bad, but a Dayton Classic 10 loaded Table Tuba will do 126dB at 40Hz with 100 watts. Just sayin'.
            www.billfitzmaurice.com
            www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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            • #36
              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
              Not bad, but a Dayton Classic 10 loaded Table Tuba will do 126dB at 40Hz with 100 watts. Just sayin'.
              i feel ya bill, but wheres the pride in just runnin with the herd ! lol

              seriously though i suppose (the more i look at it) i'm trying to build a bad a** 3-way instead of adding subs to a 2-way.......so i suppose i should just just go ahead and plan on a single rss460ho-4 to balance out the symetry?

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              • #37
                Several projects posted here, large and small, are 3 way speakers with subwoofer drivers as the bottom end. Pete Schumacher has a very nice project that he used as inspiration for a Vapor Audio commercial offering. On the small side, Scott Sehlin has a 3 way using a Tang Band sub.

                I'm trying to figure out what you're after. Do you not want good clear sound reproduction down to 20 hz? It's easily done.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by djg View Post
                  Several projects posted here, large and small, are 3 way speakers with subwoofer drivers as the bottom end. Pete Schumacher has a very nice project that he used as inspiration for a Vapor Audio commercial offering. On the small side, Scott Sehlin has a 3 way using a Tang Band sub.

                  I'm trying to figure out what you're after. Do you not want good clear sound reproduction down to 20 hz? It's easily done.
                  i suppose most music i listen to doesn't go much below 30 and i feel it would be more 'live' sounding to run a hp at 35 (or so) on the bottoms (which seems to be industry standard in pro sound) then add another sub if needed....which looks like the case if i go this route.

                  end result (hopefully) will be 'live' but clean concert level spl .......in the comfort of ones own living room!

                  prudent? well......probably not!

                  cool factor?......off the chain!

                  just something i've always thought about doing.......my mini 'wall of sound' if you will. lol

                  edit; i will check out those projects you mention

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                  • #39
                    Not how I would do it, but it's your time money effort.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by djg View Post
                      Not how I would do it, but it's your time money effort.
                      well i'm not sure how else to get a 'live' sound without using some live sound techniques, i'm all ears to listen to how you'd do it....as long as it doesn't involve a table tuba! (sorry bill ; )

                      there seems to be a saturation point where reverb/reflections comes around full circle in a given space and blooms into a whole different sound, almost like being there live. getting to this point (for me) has always been on the edge of distortion, especially for the bottom end to keep up. i have no idea what this principle is or which laws apply just know it happens, and thats the best way i can explain it.....this seems to me a function of loudness in a given space and i'm trying to reach this loudness with the least amount of distortion possible..... for all i know its a product of distortion and i'll be chasing my tail !

                      i enjoy a mellow listening session as well as the next feller and will probably have another setup side by side just for 'everyday' and wife use........but gotta have a hotrod in the garage next to the tahoe right ?

                      plan is for a 10" two-way upper cab horn mid/tweet which i'm not quite sure of details yet.....gonna see what it sounds like with my 10" two-way (dayton pa255-8 with an inverted burhoe 1.1) before i get too carried away....would like to keep the pa255 as it seems to be quite capable and smooth crossed up to 2k (its got a little beamy peak up top, i just keep it off axis) might have to come down a little like 1.6k or so.
                      maybe even try a open back ribbon on top for some omni- air!

                      already picked up a new parasound hint (old style) have the yamaha 803.... throw in a couple behringer nx3000 for the bottom and i oughta be able make some kinda racket? thats as good of amplification that i can afford.

                      have a new elac discovery streamer that has the best dac i've ever owned (its as good as a mytek brooklyn) so source quality isn't an issue

                      .....tell me what you would do, i promise to process it without bias.

                      havn't had time to check out those other builds but will read them next

                      bob

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                      • #41
                        there isn't really a whole lotta difference in what i want to do and vapors perfect storm.....in a basic sense that is

                        arcus looks cool !
                        Last edited by Mountainman Bob; 02-02-2019, 09:20 AM.

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