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  • #16
    Martin King's software, which I've been using for over 10 years.
    Paul

    Originally posted by relder View Post
    What are you using to model Paul?

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    • #17
      In case you aren't aware, I sent you a Private message yesterday.
      Paul

      Originally posted by B King View Post
      Thanks Paul. Above and beyond the call. If this will work, I'll document the build of these bad boys. No big hurry as we are leaving on a trip Sunday and we'll be gone for a couple of weeks. As soon as we get back, I'll fire up the table saw.

      Comment


      • #18
        Paul, I'd be interested in that design also. Fooled around in HornResp and tried to find a solution for a different woofer, but the same type of form factor.

        I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
        "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

        High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
        SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
        My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

        Tangband W6-sub

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        • #19
          Don, Brian King is leaving Sunday with his wife to spend 2 weeks in Spain. When he gets back I will complete the design and send it to him. I will share it here at that time unless you can't wait. If you need something sooner, send me a direct email (I'm pretty sure you have my email address).
          Paul

          Originally posted by donradick View Post
          Paul, I'd be interested in that design also. Fooled around in HornResp and tried to find a solution for a different woofer, but the same type of form factor.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
            Don, Brian King is leaving Sunday with his wife to spend 2 weeks in Spain. When he gets back I will complete the design and send it to him. I will share it here at that time unless you can't wait. If you need something sooner, send me a direct email (I'm pretty sure you have my email address).
            Paul
            I'm in no hurry, my friend. As always, appreciate your assistance.
            Built a test box with a folded TL and Rival 176 mid-woofer similar to your spec,
            and it sounded great. So I've now got the TL bug.

            I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
            "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

            High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
            SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
            My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

            Tangband W6-sub

            Comment


            • #21
              Don,
              Which Rival are you using and would you care to share any pics of your box/construction? I'm wanting to try my hand at TL's soon.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                Don, Brian King is leaving Sunday with his wife to spend 2 weeks in Spain. When he gets back I will complete the design and send it to him. I will share it here at that time unless you can't wait. If you need something sooner, send me a direct email (I'm pretty sure you have my email address).
                Paul

                This sounds like a very interesting design, Paul. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I am in no hurry either. And thanks for sharing.

                Bill
                SideTowers: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...corundum-build
                Totally Flat: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...5-totally-flat
                Plumber's Delight: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...notech-winners
                Linehopper: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...Esoteric-build

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Waboo View Post
                  Don,
                  Which Rival are you using and would you care to share any pics of your box/construction? I'm wanting to try my hand at TL's soon.
                  I used the Rival 176-CP-08 (although the 176 line is all pretty similar).
                  First off, I'm not a TL guru - I mess around a bit with HornResp, but it can't model some of the things that
                  Martin Kings worksheets can do (like move around the port).
                  I may be wrong about all of the following:
                  CSA is very critical for a MLTL - I used 7.5 x 6.5 for a single R176-CP-08. - tried to get the line about about 38" long.
                  Came up with (3/4 inch BB ply) external 9W x 14.25D x 23.75H. Internal divider about 15.75 long.
                  Think I used a 3 inch port about 4 inches long. Box was roughly 52 Liters.
                  This was just a test to see if I like the "TL sound", and I liked it a lot.
                  IMHO, gave a lot of solidity to the bottom end.

                  Hope this helps!

                  I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                  "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                  High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                  SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                  My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                  Tangband W6-sub

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    While CSA is important, the most important factor is getting the optimum tuning frequency (in any type of TL). Once you have that determined, the CSA, which, for a specific line length, controls and determines the bass response. The optimum tuning frequency is somewhat dependent on the overall bass response shape you desire. I always model for an essentially flat response from 1 kHz down to the knee in the response curve, but others might prefer a more gradual rolloff starting at a bit higher frequency. Also, the optimum tuning frequency is affected by the driver's fs and Qts. Anyway, in an ML-TL the system is tuned by two factors; one is the 1/4-wavelength resonant frequency from the line's length (which in your example below would be ~94 Hz), and the second is the mass of air loading the end of the line and working on the volume in the line.
                    Paul

                    Originally posted by donradick View Post
                    I used the Rival 176-CP-08 (although the 176 line is all pretty similar).
                    First off, I'm not a TL guru - I mess around a bit with HornResp, but it can't model some of the things that
                    Martin Kings worksheets can do (like move around the port).
                    I may be wrong about all of the following:
                    CSA is very critical for a MLTL - I used 7.5 x 6.5 for a single R176-CP-08. - tried to get the line about about 38" long.
                    Came up with (3/4 inch BB ply) external 9W x 14.25D x 23.75H. Internal divider about 15.75 long.
                    Think I used a 3 inch port about 4 inches long. Box was roughly 52 Liters.
                    This was just a test to see if I like the "TL sound", and I liked it a lot.
                    IMHO, gave a lot of solidity to the bottom end.

                    Hope this helps!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thanks Paul. I still have so much to learn. I really MUST get Martin's sw working.

                      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                      Tangband W6-sub

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Don, you're welcome. To illustrate better the issue of tuning frequency, I've attached 3 comparison graphs showing a too-high tuning frequency, a too-low tuning frequency (which some may choose or prefer) and what I use and consider to be an optimum tuning frequency The red line in each graph is the predicted anechoic system bass response for the same driver in the same ML-TL but with different port lengths to create the different tuning frequencies.
                        Paul
                        Tuning frequency too high.doc

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by donradick View Post

                          I used the Rival 176-CP-08 (although the 176 line is all pretty similar).
                          First off, I'm not a TL guru - I mess around a bit with HornResp, but it can't model some of the things that
                          Martin Kings worksheets can do (like move around the port).
                          I may be wrong about all of the following:
                          CSA is very critical for a MLTL - I used 7.5 x 6.5 for a single R176-CP-08. - tried to get the line about about 38" long.
                          Came up with (3/4 inch BB ply) external 9W x 14.25D x 23.75H. Internal divider about 15.75 long.
                          Think I used a 3 inch port about 4 inches long. Box was roughly 52 Liters.
                          This was just a test to see if I like the "TL sound", and I liked it a lot.
                          IMHO, gave a lot of solidity to the bottom end.

                          Hope this helps!
                          Thanks, Don. That driver cone looks very similar to the SS 18W/8545K. Glad you're diggin' the TL sound. It sure sounds like some good fun.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                            Don, you're welcome. To illustrate better the issue of tuning frequency, I've attached 3 comparison graphs showing a too-high tuning frequency, a too-low tuning frequency (which some may choose or prefer) and what I use and consider to be an optimum tuning frequency The red line in each graph is the predicted anechoic system bass response for the same driver in the same ML-TL but with different port lengths to create the different tuning frequencies.
                            Paul
                            [ATTACH]n1403250[/ATTACH]
                            <hangs head>
                            <promises to study harder>
                            Uh, thanks Paul! Very informative.
                            TBH, I'm likely to build a test box and try those alignments. I usually like an EBS alignment, because I feel that room gain fills
                            in a good part of the "droop". But I'll want to hear the difference in a TL design.
                            Thanks.

                            I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                            "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                            High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                            SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                            My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                            Tangband W6-sub

                            Comment

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