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The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 Build

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    tomzarbo , have you ever tried these on one of your curved cabinets? Would probably take three of them for a cabinet the size Keith is working on. Not sure how it would work out though with the overhang. Guess you could put a false board on the front and back to keep it from crushing the overhang.

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    Anyway, good luck to you Keith and I always get a kick out of your sense of humor. The big "CRAP" arrow almost had me rolling on the floor. Sorry it happened to you and hoping it wont happen again.

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
    T ...suggestion. You have some overhang on the panels. Pick up some small finish nails and drill a through hole on all of your layers before you start the glue process. Drill the hole big enough to where you can easily slide the nail in by hand. Probably only need two holes, top and bottom on the same end of the panel. This might prevent the slipping problem while you ae clamping them up.
    Good idea sir. I'll give that a run during my next glue-up! Certainly can't hurt things.

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    Tom, Keith, what you are doing makes a little more sense now. I can understand the advantage of the gap filling Poly for the first layer. I should have looked at this harder and didn't realize you were only using the Poly on the first layer to the substrate and them moving to Titebond for all subsequent layers.

    Keith, suggestion. You have some overhang on the panels. Pick up some small finish nails and drill a through hole on all of your layers before you start the glue process. Drill the hole big enough to where you can easily slide the nail in by hand. Probably only need two holes, top and bottom on the same end of the panel. This might prevent the slipping problem while you ae clamping them up.

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
    Admitantly I haven't laminated sidewalls like this before so I'm asking out of ignorance, why Polyurethane instead of regular Titebond? If applied with a roller to both sides of the panels and adequate pressure applied during clamping, wouldn't regular Titebond work? Am I missing something?
    Hi Kevin,

    My answer also comes from a place of relative ignorance... but the answer is I just followed TomZ's lead. He explained his thoughts above, which is what I gathered from his youtube video and it made sense to me, at least to try it. I cant imagine why Titebond II wouldn't work in the same application as the polyurethane glue... it would just put more emphasis on having a good smooth cabinet subframe to bond with (minimal to no gaps) and lots of even clamping pressure. I'd venture that a vacuum bag application would be best there just to ensure great clamping pressure.

    This question also gives me a good chance to detail some of the glue-up process and mistakes that have occurred so far. I did use the poly glue only for cabinet subframe to first layer of HDF, but I wasn't able to photograph myself doing it. Please reference YouTube SuperStar tomzarbo in the stunt-double photo below, cause it looked pretty much like that, just with far less confidence to wear a white T-shirt with a highly staining glue! Otherwise It's been all Titebond II between HDF panel layers.

    The first annoying mistake thus far has been one HDF layer slipping backward during the first cabinet / first layer glue-up. It slipped behind the front plane of the cabinet subframe, so it won't flush cut correctly without intervention. I'll add my next layers of HDF to that side and fill the void with bondo before flush trimming to address the issue. In future layer glue-ups, I'm adding one lightly tightened clamp to the front and back edges of the new glue-up layers to make sure this slip doesn't occur.

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  • tomzarbo
    replied
    I tend to use poly glue to adhere the first layer to the speaker carcass, then Titebond 2 to bond the individual layers of HDF together... mostly because it's very easy to spread to a consistent thickness with a roller, where poly glue tends to be thicker and harder to spread in a consistent manner... but also because I didn't want there to be a chance that it would 'foam out' or expand between layers and cause a ripple in one of the layers of HDF.

    Seems unlikely, especially on the outer layers as the curve takes some pressure to achieve, but this is the way I've always done it. Plus, Titebond is a lot cheaper than poly glue, and you really need to use a LOT to make sure things are bonded good.

    Also, using poly glue means that because of the squeeze-out, you don't need to caulk the inside of the cabinet, which is nearly impossible on some of my curved builds.

    TomZ

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  • Drjay
    replied
    Beautiful work and documentation Keith, I look forward to hearing them at Indy.

    Jay

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  • PWR RYD
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
    Admitantly I haven't laminated sidewalls like this before so I'm asking out of ignorance, why Polyurethane instead of regular Titebond? If applied with a roller to both sides of the panels and adequate pressure applied during clamping, wouldn't regular Titebond work? Am I missing something?
    I have done two different curve-sided projects like this and both times I just used Titebond. One project I applied the Titebond to one side with a roller. The other I applied the Titebond with a 1/8" notch trowel. They both turned out great. I used twice as many layers so my finished wall thickness was 1/2". It's incredible how solid a curved 1/2" wall is when it is built up with multiple layers of 1/8" HDF (Masonite).

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    Admitantly I haven't laminated sidewalls like this before so I'm asking out of ignorance, why Polyurethane instead of regular Titebond? If applied with a roller to both sides of the panels and adequate pressure applied during clamping, wouldn't regular Titebond work? Am I missing something?

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by jhollander View Post
    Looks good Keith! Who's not doing a chamfer? I'm an AutoCad user but can't get motivated to make Fusion work, I may need a tip or two in Indy.
    Hi John, I'm happy to help with Fusion360. Not exactly an expert myself, but I've figured out enough to do some fairly advanced speaker cabinet modeling. I really like the program more than Google SketchUp because it works and feels much more like the professional CAD applications I have exposure to in my day job. Granted that happens to be Creo / ProE instead of AutoCAD, but the parametric modeling and general approach to 3D modeling is the same. If I could use my company's CAD work at home that would be great, but folks tend to frown on "personal projects" being entered on the company database! Thus it's the free and totally non-affiliated Fusion360 for me.

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  • ernperkins
    replied
    Looking great, definitely want to see and hear them at Indy.

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Keith- you have to let it dry first, then scrape it off with a chisel. It should not be sticky when cured after about 5 hrs, unless you mean the static-cling it also seems to possess.
    Wolf
    Good point Ben, I should be a bit more clear here. The cabinets were clamped up for 24+ hours and all the polyurethane glue had cured sufficiently. The sticky part was actually a bit of Titebond II PVA glue that had squeezed out between the HDF panels, and become sealed against the saran wrap on the bottom of the stack (with a dried layer of Poly glue on top - sealing the PVA off).

    Thanks for the point of clarity!

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  • Wolf
    replied
    Keith- you have to let it dry first, then scrape it off with a chisel. It should not be sticky when cured after about 5 hrs, unless you mean the static-cling it also seems to possess.
    Wolf

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  • jhollander
    replied
    Looks good Keith! Who's not doing a chamfer? I'm an AutoCad user but can't get motivated to make Fusion work, I may need a tip or two in Indy.

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by Jake View Post
    Really nice work! Do you like these more than the Super Bees?
    Hi Jake,

    Thanks for following along. I'll have to let you know after I finish 'em! Right now I've only had these in CAD and my brain, so you're witnessing the creative woodworking part of the process. Once I can get the cabinets done up nicely I'll shift focus to measurements and XO design. At the end of it all, I really hope I like them more than my SuperBees, just so I can continue progressing and improving as a designer. Each project is a new challenge!

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    I managed to squeeze in an hour of garage time tonight, which was spent dealing with all the squeeze OUT from the titebond polyurethane glue on my second cabinet! I took a 1/2" chisel and gently scraped away at it until it was mostly out of the way. Special attention was paid to the MDF side of the joint, since I needed a smooth surface for flush trimming with the router after clean up. This is the first time I've used that polyurethane glue, and I gotta say the cured product reminded me of pork rinds... sticky, woodworking pork rinds!

    For flush trimming, I again followed the TomZ method and used my jigsaw to remove a fair bit of the overhang, then came in with the router to finish the cuts on the front, top, and bottom edges. tomzarbo makes it look EASY in his video, but I was a bit nervous that I was going to tip the router into the cabinet somehow! This trimming method is fairly quick... and I imagine feels much faster if I don't have "pork rinds" to clean up before each new layer gets trimmed. Thank God Titebond II doesn't dry like that! Also, thank God for PSA sandpaper and angled cauls. Those are really saving my bacon when trying to clamp this cabinet to my flat workbench.

    Pork rinds... bacon... I must be hungry or something

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