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  • #16
    Admitantly I haven't laminated sidewalls like this before so I'm asking out of ignorance, why Polyurethane instead of regular Titebond? If applied with a roller to both sides of the panels and adequate pressure applied during clamping, wouldn't regular Titebond work? Am I missing something?
    My "No-Name" CC Speaker
    Kerry's "Silverbacks"
    Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
    The Archers
    Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
    The Gandalf's

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
      Admitantly I haven't laminated sidewalls like this before so I'm asking out of ignorance, why Polyurethane instead of regular Titebond? If applied with a roller to both sides of the panels and adequate pressure applied during clamping, wouldn't regular Titebond work? Am I missing something?
      I have done two different curve-sided projects like this and both times I just used Titebond. One project I applied the Titebond to one side with a roller. The other I applied the Titebond with a 1/8" notch trowel. They both turned out great. I used twice as many layers so my finished wall thickness was 1/2". It's incredible how solid a curved 1/2" wall is when it is built up with multiple layers of 1/8" HDF (Masonite).
      Craig

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      • #18
        Beautiful work and documentation Keith, I look forward to hearing them at Indy.

        Jay

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        • #19
          I tend to use poly glue to adhere the first layer to the speaker carcass, then Titebond 2 to bond the individual layers of HDF together... mostly because it's very easy to spread to a consistent thickness with a roller, where poly glue tends to be thicker and harder to spread in a consistent manner... but also because I didn't want there to be a chance that it would 'foam out' or expand between layers and cause a ripple in one of the layers of HDF.

          Seems unlikely, especially on the outer layers as the curve takes some pressure to achieve, but this is the way I've always done it. Plus, Titebond is a lot cheaper than poly glue, and you really need to use a LOT to make sure things are bonded good.

          Also, using poly glue means that because of the squeeze-out, you don't need to caulk the inside of the cabinet, which is nearly impossible on some of my curved builds.

          TomZ
          *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
          *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

          *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
            Admitantly I haven't laminated sidewalls like this before so I'm asking out of ignorance, why Polyurethane instead of regular Titebond? If applied with a roller to both sides of the panels and adequate pressure applied during clamping, wouldn't regular Titebond work? Am I missing something?
            Hi Kevin,

            My answer also comes from a place of relative ignorance... but the answer is I just followed TomZ's lead. He explained his thoughts above, which is what I gathered from his youtube video and it made sense to me, at least to try it. I cant imagine why Titebond II wouldn't work in the same application as the polyurethane glue... it would just put more emphasis on having a good smooth cabinet subframe to bond with (minimal to no gaps) and lots of even clamping pressure. I'd venture that a vacuum bag application would be best there just to ensure great clamping pressure.

            This question also gives me a good chance to detail some of the glue-up process and mistakes that have occurred so far. I did use the poly glue only for cabinet subframe to first layer of HDF, but I wasn't able to photograph myself doing it. Please reference YouTube SuperStar tomzarbo in the stunt-double photo below, cause it looked pretty much like that, just with far less confidence to wear a white T-shirt with a highly staining glue! Otherwise It's been all Titebond II between HDF panel layers.

            The first annoying mistake thus far has been one HDF layer slipping backward during the first cabinet / first layer glue-up. It slipped behind the front plane of the cabinet subframe, so it won't flush cut correctly without intervention. I'll add my next layers of HDF to that side and fill the void with bondo before flush trimming to address the issue. In future layer glue-ups, I'm adding one lightly tightened clamp to the front and back edges of the new glue-up layers to make sure this slip doesn't occur.

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            Attached Files
            Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
            Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
            The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
            SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
            The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

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            • #21
              Tom, Keith, what you are doing makes a little more sense now. I can understand the advantage of the gap filling Poly for the first layer. I should have looked at this harder and didn't realize you were only using the Poly on the first layer to the substrate and them moving to Titebond for all subsequent layers.

              Keith, suggestion. You have some overhang on the panels. Pick up some small finish nails and drill a through hole on all of your layers before you start the glue process. Drill the hole big enough to where you can easily slide the nail in by hand. Probably only need two holes, top and bottom on the same end of the panel. This might prevent the slipping problem while you ae clamping them up.
              My "No-Name" CC Speaker
              Kerry's "Silverbacks"
              Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
              The Archers
              Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
              The Gandalf's

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                T ...suggestion. You have some overhang on the panels. Pick up some small finish nails and drill a through hole on all of your layers before you start the glue process. Drill the hole big enough to where you can easily slide the nail in by hand. Probably only need two holes, top and bottom on the same end of the panel. This might prevent the slipping problem while you ae clamping them up.
                Good idea sir. I'll give that a run during my next glue-up! Certainly can't hurt things.

                Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                Comment


                • #23
                  tomzarbo , have you ever tried these on one of your curved cabinets? Would probably take three of them for a cabinet the size Keith is working on. Not sure how it would work out though with the overhang. Guess you could put a false board on the front and back to keep it from crushing the overhang.

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                  Anyway, good luck to you Keith and I always get a kick out of your sense of humor. The big "CRAP" arrow almost had me rolling on the floor. Sorry it happened to you and hoping it wont happen again.
                  My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                  Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                  Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                  The Archers
                  Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                  The Gandalf's

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                    [ ...I always get a kick out of your sense of humor. The big "CRAP" arrow almost had me rolling on the floor. Sorry it happened to you and hoping it wont happen again.
                    Thanks bud! I'm a firm believer that if we can't laugh about things, we're not doing it right. I'll live and learn, and I've certainly recovered projects from bigger snafus!
                    Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                    Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                    The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                    SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                    The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post

                      Thanks bud! I'm a firm believer that if we can't laugh about things, we're not doing it right. I'll live and learn, and I've certainly recovered projects from bigger snafus!
                      Absolutely man! Mistakes will almost always be part of a DIY build, some worse than others. IMO, the merit of a good DIYer is being able to recover and if we can laugh at ourselves afterwards, even better.
                      My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                      Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                      Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                      The Archers
                      Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                      The Gandalf's

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I have used titebond III, but I really like epoxy with slow hardener.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                          tomzarbo , have you ever tried these on one of your curved cabinets? Would probably take three of them for a cabinet the size Keith is working on. Not sure how it would work out though with the overhang. Guess you could put a false board on the front and back to keep it from crushing the overhang.

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                          Anyway, good luck to you Keith and I always get a kick out of your sense of humor. The big "CRAP" arrow almost had me rolling on the floor. Sorry it happened to you and hoping it wont happen again.
                          Kevin,
                          I do have, and use a set of corner strap clamps similar to that, two of them actually. My sister bought me one a few years back, and after I used it and discovered that it really works, I picked up one more for medium sized boxes. They're really good for boxes with mitered corners.

                          Truthfully, the caul-and-clamp method works so well, evening out the pressure, that it's just money for me. The next set of cabinets Keith does this way will go much smoother I'm sure. I had hiccups too the first time I did this. Glue really makes things slippery on top of everything else, so I usually leave a bit more overhang when it inevitably happens.

                          Looking at your pics Keith, I'd say you'll probably be alright with the amount of glue you applied, but just to be safe, I use probably twice that. I pour it from the gallon jug right on the panels. Yes, a lot of it just drips out while clamping, but it's just better to have too much than not enough. Learned that the hard way. Once you get things unclamped you can do the tap test with your middle fingernail and you'll hear any spots that aren't held fast because of the different higher pitch thunk.

                          Man, I forgot that my hair used to be a color back then other than white. Guess I should just be happy I have some.

                          TomZ
                          *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                          *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

                          *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Nice Keith, looking good, I'll be following along =)
                            --
                            Javad Shadzi
                            Bay Area, CA

                            2-Channel Stereo system in the works with Adcom components and 4-way towers

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Man, that's awesome stuff. Can't wait to see the end result.
                              You go your way, I'll go mine. I don't care if we get there on time.

                              ~Pink Floyd

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Sometimes in speaker building you're as much a sculptor as a carpenter... tonight was one of those nights! I kept thinking about my first cabinet glue up and the iffy amount of glue that ended up there (A.K.A. "where's the squeeze out?") so I decided to poke at things a bit. Before long I was poking a bit harder with a hammer and chisel to pop that outer layer of HDF off. It was a risky decision, but I'm glad I chose to do it. Once I was deep into it, I wasn't thrilled with the glue results on one of the sides. I definitely didn't want to build the whole cabinet only to have a delamination later. Now was the time to fix it.

                                I tried my best to take shallow angle cuts with the chisel... really more of a prying action than a purposeful cut... and generally removed only the top layer of HDF. Once I got to the halfway point, the smooth factory brown top layer on the HDF did serve as a bit of a depth guide. I only punched through the wall once, and only a little bit... but bless that Noico 80! It's holding up the HDF structure just fine for now. I'll put some bondo on all the actual gouges I made and re-prep this guy for another glue up soon.

                                For now... enjoy the carnage!

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                                Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                                Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                                The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                                SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                                The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                                Comment

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