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The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 Build

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  • skatz
    replied
    Yes, agree with you. It wouldn't need to be forced into a curve, so might be easier to work with.

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by skatz View Post
    Keith, just found myself wondering if you have ever used bending plywood, and how it would compare with using the HDF you have in this project? I have not worked with it, but some of the specialty wood suppliers have it in a variety of thicknesses. I would assume you would still need to laminate it.
    Hey bud! I have not seen that material before... pretty nifty! I found some quick info googling for "flexible plywood" and I'd guess this stuff could be used in a similar manner to the HDF. The strength in these composite designs lies in the layering effect, so that effect should be similar whether you're forming HDF or bending plywood. The only difference I would guess might be in the resonance / acoustic properties if the density of the plywood is lower than the HDF... might give you more of a hollow sound unless you increase the number of layers vs. HDF. I'll have to keep this in mind as an option for future projects!

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  • skatz
    replied
    Keith, just found myself wondering if you have ever used bending plywood, and how it would compare with using the HDF you have in this project? I have not worked with it, but some of the specialty wood suppliers have it in a variety of thicknesses. I would assume you would still need to laminate it.

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Holy Moly It's been a while. Work has been progressing on the Defiants, but I've only had time for woodwork and not much time for documenting. A much needed vacation was thrown in there too! Let's see what I can catch up on here.

    1) The front baffles are coming along nicely. Those are still being handled in the Secret Squirrel department, so no finished pictures at this time. I'm using playing cards as shims in the photo below to center the driver for mounting hole placement.

    2) Veneering is 99% done. One more panel to flush trim tonight and we'll be there. I used a quilted plain sawn maple with heavy figure, and did my best to grain match the wrap all around the sides and back.

    3) Flush trimming the veneer where the curved sides and top meet up with the back required me to use an actual veneer saw rather than a router flush trim bit. This was the first time I've used one of those veneer saws and I was pretty impressed! The saw is set up for right hand use, and for being used on top of the veneer. This made things a bit tricky when I needed to flush cut from underneath the veneer, so I used some delicate masking tape and a piece of MDF as a backer to cut the veneer while supporting the fibers and avoiding any tear out (tear UP?... if it's coming from below???... anyway).

    4) Cabinet B has the driver holes cut into the cabinet proper! It felt a lot like an archaeologist opening a tomb that's been sealed for ages...or maybe just 4 weeks! I still need to cut the hole for the adjustable port on the backside.

    5) My Blacked-Out Binding Posts are complete, and looking pretty dang good at this point! More details and photos in my next post.

    Next steps - Get my butt in gear and race toward a properly setup cabinet for measurements and lightning fast XO development. Just under 1 month until InDIYana!

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  • skatz
    replied
    Thanks for that. I don't do any CAD at all, and have no desire to learn it. I have enough software I'm trying to learn already. I was just thinking out loud, but your techniques seem quite solid, just not feasible by me.

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by skatz View Post
    Keith

    On this demo, it appears you used a laminated 3/4 inch MDF to make the baffle 1.5" How did you determine that that was sufficient thickness to make the facets? I would guess that--depending on the geometry-- you might sometimes need more thickness in the baffle.
    Yessir! You guess correctly that baffle thickness may need to be thicker than the 1.5" that I am using. In fact, back in post 98 for this build thread I posted some pictures I borrowed from another forum where the builder was making an Avalon Acoustics clone shows a baffle made from at least 3 layers of MDF.

    The short answer is that I CAD model everything when I initially plan a design. That includes thought experiments on how I will actually manufacture something.

    The longer answer goes like this...
    Initially my facets were designed by aesthetic preference... I just thought that the facet size I picked looked right for the cabinet. But, you have to check yourself against some practical limits of the method:

    1) Tool limitations
    - Blade height maxes out at ~3 1/8" on most table saws with a 10" blade
    - The tallest part of your facet (from the tablesaw's surface) must be within 3 1/8" for a complete cut.
    - Note: you can "start" a facet cut that is taller than 3 1/8" with your table saw, but you'll have to come back with a hand saw to finish the cut.
    - One of those Japanese pull saws was recommended for this job.
    - Be sure to consider your choice of sled / work fixtures in the decision process for facet size.
    - Again... everything has to reference back to the saw's table and be within 3 1/8"
    - Bevel angle is usually 45 degrees or less (where lower angles result in shallower / wider facet)
    - Going higher than 45 gets closer and closer to a sharp 90 degree edge transition, which is what you're avoiding.
    - Miter angle is usually very small. My taper jig maxes out at 15 degrees.
    - Higher angles will cut into your baffle much steeper.

    2) Design Limits
    - Don't create thin sections where your facets get close to your walls / the corners of the cabinets.
    - If you take a facet too close to the edge, you end up with a wall thickness less than the nominal thickness of your material.
    - This is yet another reason to check these things in CAD.
    - Use a "Sectioning Analysis" in Fusion360 (fancy word for cutaway view)
    - This will let you observe the transition from cabinet to baffle with facets.
    - Watch your minimum wall thickness and be sure you're comfortable with it!

    3) Other considerations (not really limits... more personal preference)
    You'll want to make sure that your facet doesn't restrict your choices of finish or create difficulty in handling / assembly later on. In my case, I wanted at least 1/4" of flat edge on all sides of my baffle for applying veneer, or paint, or whatever else I do. I suppose you could go thinner, but doing so in MDF seemed like a good way to end up with a dent in that part of the cabinet from hitting an edge on something during handling. Maybe I'm not careful enough!

    Hope that helps!

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  • skatz
    replied
    Keith

    On this demo, it appears you used a laminated 3/4 inch MDF to make the baffle 1.5" How did you determine that that was sufficient thickness to make the facets? I would guess that--depending on the geometry-- you might sometimes need more thickness in the baffle.

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
    BTW Keith, I forgot to mention in my earlier comment, nice job on the facets, it looks like they turned out perfect. Did the taper jig come with the Saw-Stop, or did you pick that up somewhere else, I need one.
    Thanks Kevin! The taper jig was a separate purchase from that big ol' rainforesty store. It served the purpose, but I do wish it felt a bit more robust. Upon further inspection it appears the same bits of Chinesium used in this taper jig are packaged and sold under several brand names like Powertec, Woodtek, Big Horn, etc... About the same level of quality one might expect from ye ol' Hazard Fraught.

    The angle scale included on it is better than nothing... but just barely. Definitely recommend using a better angle gauge to confirm what you're actually setting as the miter angle. Had I not confirmed, I would have been at nearly 6.5 degrees by eyeballing that scale alone. I'm picky .

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    BTW Keith, I forgot to mention in my earlier comment, nice job on the facets, it looks like they turned out perfect. Did the taper jig come with the Saw-Stop, or did you pick that up somewhere else, I need one.

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by xmax View Post
    "I'm sure my smartphone and laptop are already spying on me... but I don't think they are listening to my every word."
    If you have FB messenger installed they kinda are.
    Thanks for the tip... Just turned that app permission OFF!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • xmax
    replied
    "I'm sure my smartphone and laptop are already spying on me... but I don't think they are listening to my every word."
    If you have FB messenger installed they kinda are.

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post

    You didn't have "Gangnam style" playing in the background did you? Are they saying there's a match between 11:30 and 12:20 on your video? If so, I wonder if you could edit that portion and get it to pass, Maybe just a tad slower or faster to avoid the detection.
    Haha... Gangnam Style is my favorite Korean song! ...also happens to be the only Korean song I know You're seeing things correctly though, YouTube was saying 11:30 to 12:20 contained the supposedly copyright identified stuff. I'm not totally satisfied with YouTube's approach as well... Their little "dispute form" just makes me swear that I own the content in the video, then the copyright holder (NOT YouTube) has to review and approve my dispute within 30 days. So it sounds like my audio will be quarantined for a month while someone in Korea has to watch my speaker building video? I hope they at least learn something! On my end I could probably try to edit the audio and make it "different" but I'd be guessing as to what really attracted YouTube's algorithm in the first place. We'll see if I'm still irked about it tomorrow.

    Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post

    Not to pile on... but I've always thought that.


    Weird!

    But then again I'll be talking with Eileen and the next thing we know, Google assistant is saying something to us that has not one thing to do with anything we were even talking about.

    Glad the facets came out great, I'll check out the video.

    TomZ
    Aww come on Tom! Piling on is where the fun is! All the cool kids are doing it

    Maybe I give "Big Brother" too much credit, but I refuse to have an Amazon Alexa or Google Home in my house. I'm sure my smartphone and laptop are already spying on me... but I don't think they are listening to my every word.

    Leave a comment:


  • tomzarbo
    replied
    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post
    Yup... I'm a Korean Song alright!

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    Not to pile on... but I've always thought that.


    Weird!

    But then again I'll be talking with Eileen and the next thing we know, Google assistant is saying something to us that has not one thing to do with anything we were even talking about.

    Glad the facets came out great, I'll check out the video.

    TomZ

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin K.
    replied
    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post
    Yup... I'm a Korean Song alright!

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    You didn't have "Gangnam style" playing in the background did you? Are they saying there's a match between 11:30 and 12:20 on your video? If so, I wonder if you could edit that portion and get it to pass, Maybe just a tad slower or faster to avoid the detection.

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Yup... I'm a Korean Song alright!

    Click image for larger version

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