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The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 Build

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  • dkalsi
    replied
    Keith - Super Impressive!!!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Big News! The facet cuts are complete!!!

    I made another YouTube video to describe the process in detail, so I hope it helps people.

    Here's a few pictures for those less YouTube-inclined!

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    YouTube Video:

    Here's the Audio from 11:20 - 12:20... Apparently YouTube thinks I sound like a Korean song???
    (I got a copyright claim from the Recording Industry Association of Korea)

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zw...kpUV-C6xIFLD4H



    Last edited by KEtheredge87; 03-10-2019, 11:30 AM. Reason: Had to give a separate link to some of the audio... super strange.

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  • jhollander
    replied
    Here's 2-d pic of a sled for one side tilt table saw arbor. This assumes the facets are symmetrical and you mount the baffles on a box. Whatever method you choose the facets will need to be tuned up. I used my block plane, #6 plane and sandpaper on MDF board to get the shapes closer.

    Note, I locked my box down on the jig and did one pass without moving the fence. In retrospect I should have added a fence stop and then moved the fence up to the final dimension while measuring the facet flats at the top ends
    Last edited by jhollander; 03-08-2019, 02:01 PM. Reason: added content

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  • Wolf
    replied
    JohnH- Thank you for your jig drawing! For some reason, I always thought you needed the blade to tilt both ways, but your jig makes the blade the same in both cases. That's very novel!

    Might have to add that to the arsenal...

    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • tomzarbo
    replied
    I'm looking forward to seeing a video of this happen as well.

    I know how I'd do it... I would draw all the angle lines on the cabinet and rough cut them on the band saw probably, or whatever would work to hog out the bulk of material... reciprocating saw and a steady hand?

    Then, I would go to the big 6" stationary belt sander and get real close to the lines with that, then finish up with a large sanding block, like my 2x2 clampable sanding block and move the cabinet over it until I reached the drawn line...…

    …. but that is total butchery, I know. I'm almost embarrassed to type it, but I do believe that's how I would do it at this point because I don't know how else to do it. I have an awful time with figuring angles out if it's not something that I can understand in my head visually. This would loose me for sure.

    It will be cool to see how it's supposed to be done. Keith, I'm glad you plan to document what you did, and maybe a little of the 'why' for all posterity. I know if I were doing it the way I outlined, I'd be wasting a lot of 'practice' MDF.


    Stuff like this makes me realize why you CNC guys love them so much.

    TomZ

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  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Originally posted by a4eaudio View Post

    I've been asking myself this question. I have seen in the past that people have built a sled for facets. Why not just use a circular saw set at X-degrees and use a guide?
    Is it just the precision you gain from the sled, or are there other reasons also?
    I don't really get how the sleds work from still-pictures, so hopefully you will post another nice YouTube video for us non-engineers!
    Good idea I'll video the process on that one too when I get there. There are actually a few methods I considered for making these facets. In no particular order:

    1) Roughing the facets in with a chisel --> hand plane --> final surface by sanding (supposedly not that difficult. Troels Gravesen discusses this on his website's Tips and Tricks page)
    2) circular saw with guide
    3) table saw sled with taper jig

    I wasn't confident that I would personally do well with the circular saw at an angle method, and further I wasn't sure I could set the angle on my circular saw as accurately as I would want. I tend to overthink, and overestimate the difficulty of a task before I try it... so I may be wrong about my potential success (or lack thereof) with this method.

    I like the table saw sled method because I feel more confident in my ability to control the angles, and really lock down the adjustable parts that will guide the sled (table saw fence, taper jig angle setting, facet sled construction).

    The idea of the sled is all about holding the work. I will keep the sawblade at 90 degrees (straight up) and use the taper jig to set the 7 degree miter angle while the facet sled has it's face at 60 degrees to the table. This (when pushed into a 90 deg saw blade) will result in a 30 degree bevel angle on the workpiece. Once I have my tablesaw fence set the appropriate distance from the blade, all I need to do is safely push the whole sled and taper jig forward into the cut. The taper jig rides against the fence which controls my position in the X direction (left / right) and the saw's table fixes my workpiece against any rotation or movement in the Z direction (up / down as in floating above the table or sinking into the table). That just leaves me to control the speed at which I feed the baffle through the sawblade in the Y direction (forward and backward).

    There's a lot of engineer-ey words there to describe what's going on... but as usual this operation is 99% setup, and 1% cut. You'll see!

    Thanks for following along!

    Leave a comment:


  • a4eaudio
    replied
    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post
    Am I missing something?
    I've been asking myself this question. I have seen in the past that people have built a sled for facets. Why not just use a circular saw set at X-degrees and use a guide?
    Is it just the precision you gain from the sled, or are there other reasons also?
    I don't really get how the sleds work from still-pictures, so hopefully you will post another nice YouTube video for us non-engineers!

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Thanks John, I think I understand how your jig works. Just a simple flat MDF sled with two angled stops fixed to it... Cut one side, rotate the baffle to the second stop, and cut the second side. I'm having trouble thinking about that method for my baffles. My saw will tilt 30 deg to the left, but I have two facets on each side that cut in different directions. The top facets cut from baffle center and move toward the sides, while the bottom facets go from sides toward the center. I think I'd still have to move the setup to the other side of my blade, but the the blade angle is wrong. Am I missing something? Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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  • jhollander
    replied
    You have a lot of potential adjustment errors, which is OK just measure the distance across the flats and the length of the taper and keep going until all are close. I'd be tempted to set the table saw blade to 30 degrees and set (fix) the taper on my jig. I'd flip the baffle 4 times after the the fence was in the final position.

    Sorry the pic is 2-d but this is my facet jig cutting 45 degree facets. The blade is at 45 degrees, right side is the table saw fence

    Leave a comment:


  • tomzarbo
    replied
    Keith, this is one way to eliminate any adhesive from squeezing out. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...75#post1398375
    basically, a thin gasket of neoprene between the box and baffle, then glue away, no squeeze out, even with Gorilla glue if used carefully.
    TomZ

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    Looks good Keith. If you can make room for a single toggle clamp on each end of the sled to keep the baffle tight against the fixture, might help you to make cleaner cuts. Good luck man.

    Leave a comment:


  • KEtheredge87
    replied
    Evening Gents... tonight has been a CAD and planning session. Starting with the rough dimensions of my table saw top and the angles needed for the facet cuts on the baffle, I modeled up my facet cutting sled. It's a good thing I did too... cause I would have been WRONG if I had just gone into the garage guns-a-blazin to build the sled! In my head I kept thinking a 30 degree facet cut means angle the baffle 30 degrees off the table. Nope. That'd be 60 degrees off the table so that the 30 degree bit gets cut off. Funny how basic geometry escapes the engineer on first pass!

    All of my facets are 30 degree bevel angles with 7 degree miter angles, so with this setup I'll be able to cut two facets with the jig on the right side of the blade, and the other two facets from the left side of the blade. The miter angle will be taken care of by the table saw tapering jig while the bevel angle is fixed by the 60 degree angled sled bed with a 90 degree vertical saw blade. You can see what I mean in the mirrored photo below.

    I feel pretty good about this now, so it's time to build the sled and make some exacting layout lines on the raw baffles. I'll be lining up the facets by eyeball and adjusting the table saw fence to sneak up to the line. I should be able to keep the fence in locked in place to make the same facet cut on all 4 baffles I have. That assumes my material isn't significantly thicker from piece to piece. Should be good though. I'll just have to check before starting each cut.

    Click image for larger version

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    Originally posted by dkalsi View Post
    I love Keith's builds/thread. Always so much to learn :-). Thanks for posting that video, Kevin.
    You're welcome dkalsi. Hope anyone interested in the cutter can make out the part number on the bag. If not, just holler and I'll look it back up.

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  • dkalsi
    replied
    I love Keith's builds/thread. Always so much to learn :-). Thanks for posting that video, Kevin.

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  • Kevin K.
    replied
    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post

    Thanks Kevin and jhollander , I'm sure I have my work cut out for me! Kevin, do you mean you chucked a 1/4" downcut spiral flush trim bit into a die grinder and used that to trim in close on the veneered facets? I did a little sleuthing through your desktop CBT and Gandalf's projects to find that clue. If so that's an interesting suggestion! I suppose you can still ride the bearing against the surface and keep a very shallow angle on the bit so that you aren't 100% flush cutting, and thereby keep the bit from rocking down and gouging into the wood... CAREFULLY!!!
    That's the one Keith and you get it. Apply a couple of layers of masking tape on the surface you'll be guiding the bearing on. The buildup of tape wont hurt you because you'll be leaving material to sand flush with a block. Here's a video from when I built the arrays. As a reminder, I'm not the natural "Youtuber" you are, in fact, I hate being on camera or in front of an audience, just part of being an introvert. I would suggest leaving more material by tilting the router a little more then I did in this video, I was cutting very close to flush.

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