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The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 Build

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  • #91
    Looking good! I love using the dowels to locate the baffle, as long as you're lined up before 'whacking' the baffle, you're golden. It's Tom-proof. Those six dowels will probably do all the holding that you need. I used 4 on my recent set of Encores, and I'd bet that I could have just epoxied the dowel areas (not the rest of the baffle) and used speaker gasket material to make the seal, not that I'd do that, but I bet it would work.

    TomZ
    *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
    *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

    *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

    Comment


    • #92
      You make a good point Tom... The dowels and driver holes will definitely get some titebond II when it's time for final assembly but I do wonder how much glue I'll actually need for a proper seal. I would rather not have any squeeze out on the exterior faces of this joint when it's time for assembly, so I'll have to give that some more thought.
      Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
      Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
      The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
      SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
      The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post
        You make a good point Tom... The dowels and driver holes will definitely get some titebond II when it's time for final assembly but I do wonder how much glue I'll actually need for a proper seal. I would rather not have any squeeze out on the exterior faces of this joint when it's time for assembly, so I'll have to give that some more thought.
        Trying to understand your concern of the glue squeezing out? Are you planning to veneer the baffle separately from the rest of the cabinet and attach it afterwards?
        My "No-Name" CC Speaker
        Kerry's "Silverbacks"
        Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
        The Archers
        Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
        The Gandalf's

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post

          Trying to understand your concern of the glue squeezing out? Are you planning to veneer the baffle separately from the rest of the cabinet and attach it afterwards?
          Hey Kevin, perhaps I have shown my cards a bit .

          Err... We are not at liberty to discuss ongoing investigations... At this time we can neither confirm nor deny the existence any veneering plans.... We plead the 5th... OK, I think I'm out of dodgy pseudo-non-answers!

          IF such a plan were to exist, I would certainly glue the baffle to the front panel prior to veneering, which would render any such squeeze-out concerns moot.

          IF a new direction is recommended by the SkunkWorx at Etheredge Audio Engineering, then these speakers will be highly "Defiant" indeed

          Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
          Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
          The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
          SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
          The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post

            Hey Kevin, perhaps I have shown my cards a bit .

            Err... We are not at liberty to discuss ongoing investigations... At this time we can neither confirm nor deny the existence any veneering plans.... We plead the 5th... OK, I think I'm out of dodgy pseudo-non-answers!

            IF such a plan were to exist, I would certainly glue the baffle to the front panel prior to veneering, which would render any such squeeze-out concerns moot.

            IF a new direction is recommended by the SkunkWorx at Etheredge Audio Engineering, then these speakers will be highly "Defiant" indeed
            Lol, OK, I gotcha now. So, hypothetically, if one were to veneer the baffles and cabinets separately, and one wishes not to deal with glue squeeze out ruining the veneer on either piece after attaching the two together, one might apply masking tape to the veneer edges on both pieces prior to joining them. Any excess should land on the tape which could easily be removed after said glue was dry. One would be sure to use the "delicate surface" masking tape, the kind that would stick well enough for this kind of experiment but not damage the veneer as it was peeled off later. Hypothetically speaking of course. Good luck bud.
            My "No-Name" CC Speaker
            Kerry's "Silverbacks"
            Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
            The Archers
            Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
            The Gandalf's

            Comment


            • #96
              Could veneer the body (hence the extra HDF layers) and paint the MDF baffle. Veneering facets is not fun as that's what I did for Indy. My only other tip was I found using CAD to design my table facet template very helpful. I was able to get both left hand and right hand setups on one jig.
              John H

              Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

              Comment


              • #97
                Keith, John makes a really good point, veneering facets is challenging. I've tried it a couple of different ways, the iron-on method and cold pressing it using cauls to clamp the veneer pieces. It's time consuming either way because trimming and sanding is a little more difficult. Not trying to discourage you, and I love the look of your original rendering. If you decide to pursue it, my suggestion would be to glue up a couple of scraps of mdf, apply facets, and practice on them with some scrap veneer if you have any left from another project or have some surplus from this project. The hand router/grinder method I used on the arrays works pretty good for cutting some of the excess off. I usually tried to leave about a 1/16" from the router and hand sanded with a block from there. Let me know if you need a link to the cutter I used in the hand router/grinder.
                My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                The Archers
                Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                The Gandalf's

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
                  Keith, John makes a really good point, veneering facets is challenging. I've tried it a couple of different ways, the iron-on method and cold pressing it using cauls to clamp the veneer pieces. It's time consuming either way because trimming and sanding is a little more difficult. Not trying to discourage you, and I love the look of your original rendering. If you decide to pursue it, my suggestion would be to glue up a couple of scraps of mdf, apply facets, and practice on them with some scrap veneer if you have any left from another project or have some surplus from this project. The hand router/grinder method I used on the arrays works pretty good for cutting some of the excess off. I usually tried to leave about a 1/16" from the router and hand sanded with a block from there. Let me know if you need a link to the cutter I used in the hand router/grinder.
                  Thanks Kevin and jhollander , I'm sure I have my work cut out for me! Kevin, do you mean you chucked a 1/4" downcut spiral flush trim bit into a die grinder and used that to trim in close on the veneered facets? I did a little sleuthing through your desktop CBT and Gandalf's projects to find that clue. If so that's an interesting suggestion! I suppose you can still ride the bearing against the surface and keep a very shallow angle on the bit so that you aren't 100% flush cutting, and thereby keep the bit from rocking down and gouging into the wood... CAREFULLY!!!!

                  John - I'd be interested to know more about your facet cutting jig that was mentioned above... Right now my plan is to copy Jon Marsh and "ColoradoTom" from HTShack in the Ardent (Avalon clone) build thread... Shamelessly stolen pictures detailing that plan below.

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                  Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                  Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                  The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                  SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                  The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by KEtheredge87 View Post

                    Thanks Kevin and jhollander , I'm sure I have my work cut out for me! Kevin, do you mean you chucked a 1/4" downcut spiral flush trim bit into a die grinder and used that to trim in close on the veneered facets? I did a little sleuthing through your desktop CBT and Gandalf's projects to find that clue. If so that's an interesting suggestion! I suppose you can still ride the bearing against the surface and keep a very shallow angle on the bit so that you aren't 100% flush cutting, and thereby keep the bit from rocking down and gouging into the wood... CAREFULLY!!!
                    That's the one Keith and you get it. Apply a couple of layers of masking tape on the surface you'll be guiding the bearing on. The buildup of tape wont hurt you because you'll be leaving material to sand flush with a block. Here's a video from when I built the arrays. As a reminder, I'm not the natural "Youtuber" you are, in fact, I hate being on camera or in front of an audience, just part of being an introvert. I would suggest leaving more material by tilting the router a little more then I did in this video, I was cutting very close to flush.

                     
                    My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                    Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                    Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                    The Archers
                    Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                    The Gandalf's

                    Comment


                    • I love Keith's builds/thread. Always so much to learn :-). Thanks for posting that video, Kevin.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dkalsi View Post
                        I love Keith's builds/thread. Always so much to learn :-). Thanks for posting that video, Kevin.
                        You're welcome dkalsi. Hope anyone interested in the cutter can make out the part number on the bag. If not, just holler and I'll look it back up.
                        My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                        Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                        Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                        The Archers
                        Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                        The Gandalf's

                        Comment


                        • Evening Gents... tonight has been a CAD and planning session. Starting with the rough dimensions of my table saw top and the angles needed for the facet cuts on the baffle, I modeled up my facet cutting sled. It's a good thing I did too... cause I would have been WRONG if I had just gone into the garage guns-a-blazin to build the sled! In my head I kept thinking a 30 degree facet cut means angle the baffle 30 degrees off the table. Nope. That'd be 60 degrees off the table so that the 30 degree bit gets cut off. Funny how basic geometry escapes the engineer on first pass!

                          All of my facets are 30 degree bevel angles with 7 degree miter angles, so with this setup I'll be able to cut two facets with the jig on the right side of the blade, and the other two facets from the left side of the blade. The miter angle will be taken care of by the table saw tapering jig while the bevel angle is fixed by the 60 degree angled sled bed with a 90 degree vertical saw blade. You can see what I mean in the mirrored photo below.

                          I feel pretty good about this now, so it's time to build the sled and make some exacting layout lines on the raw baffles. I'll be lining up the facets by eyeball and adjusting the table saw fence to sneak up to the line. I should be able to keep the fence in locked in place to make the same facet cut on all 4 baffles I have. That assumes my material isn't significantly thicker from piece to piece. Should be good though. I'll just have to check before starting each cut.

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                          Voxel Down Firing with Dayton SA70
                          Translam Subwoofers - The Jedi Mind Tricks
                          The Super Bees - Garage 2 way
                          SevenSixTwo - InDIYana 2018 Coax
                          The Defiants - InDIYana 2019 "Bare Minimum" Build

                          Comment


                          • Looks good Keith. If you can make room for a single toggle clamp on each end of the sled to keep the baffle tight against the fixture, might help you to make cleaner cuts. Good luck man.
                            My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                            Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                            Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                            The Archers
                            Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                            The Gandalf's

                            Comment


                            • Keith, this is one way to eliminate any adhesive from squeezing out. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...75#post1398375
                              basically, a thin gasket of neoprene between the box and baffle, then glue away, no squeeze out, even with Gorilla glue if used carefully.
                              TomZ
                              *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                              *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

                              *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

                              Comment


                              • You have a lot of potential adjustment errors, which is OK just measure the distance across the flats and the length of the taper and keep going until all are close. I'd be tempted to set the table saw blade to 30 degrees and set (fix) the taper on my jig. I'd flip the baffle 4 times after the the fence was in the final position.

                                Sorry the pic is 2-d but this is my facet jig cutting 45 degree facets. The blade is at 45 degrees, right side is the table saw fence
                                John H

                                Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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