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Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?

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  • Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?

    I've been on a quest to build my own own reference monitor. In that journey I've come to know the JBL m2. Maybe its highly prized for its flat response but all I see is another 2-way. There are already flat two ways on the market. So not sure what the hype would be around this speaker, beyond having accuracy and spl, making useful for far field as well as near field.
    As a full-range solution if a 2 way that took care of sub bass, gets rid of another cross and thats cool. I've found a driver that could be used for the top

    http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/F...HF146#16%CE%A9

    A woofer for the bottom can be found. The question is, how is a woofer that is going to be easily responsible from 30hz to ~1000hz going to behave? Lets say we are auditioning rap, edm, or some other deep bass reproduction that causes high woofer excursion, how is the top range of that speaker going to sound? It seems to me a 3 way is almost always better, but I'm not the finally say, the results are, anyone have a strong opinion on this?

  • #2
    Kappa pro-15lf-2 With the right port setup oughta gitter’dun

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    • #3
      There are many HF drivers that will do what you want, and many woofers that would work well with it. But whether you can realize your goal depends on your definition of whole spectrum. If that's 40-15kHz OK. If that's 20-20kHz probably not, unless you're prepared to toss a lot of money into the equation, and even then you still need DSP to get M2 results.
      www.billfitzmaurice.com
      www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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      • #4
        And depends on your definition of high SPL as well as room size.

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        • #5
          Well I have a high opinion of the people on this board so I figured whats good ya'll is good for, outside of voicing, which voicing is personal. My goal has been been 30hz-20khz.....though my current tweeters start to roll of at 19khz and love the way they sound, thats likely irrelevant. I use a balanced minidsp for eq... 30hz to ~1000hz is what the woofer would handle, if I fulfilled this project. This thread is an alternative to my thread regarding a 3way with coaxial tops.I only today, found a driver, to entertain the 3 way

          http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/Beyma/5CX200Nd_N

          While combing loudspeaker database I decided to check compression drivers and found

          http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/F...HF146#16%CE%A9

          http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/F...HF10AK#8%CE%A9

          Having a naked midrange seems like a huge plus. Getting rid of a crossover, is a plus, but now I have a crossover in the middle of my midrange, I honestly don't know whos winning!
          With the 3 way, the woofer would be responsible from 150hz and down.....but with the 2 way I'm looking at a crossover somewhere around 800-1000hz. Its just amazing to me that a speaker would be able to handle the excursion of an 808 tuned to the 30's and still emit accurately in the lower to mid, midrange, at a high volume. High volume to me would be what the JBL M2 claims 117db at one meter. The M2 has a 30hs f3...I'd basically be trying to create a m2 I guess but I, once again, am surprised that a woofer could handle all that material at once, with high excursion material.
          Last edited by camplo; 03-05-2019, 02:28 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by camplo View Post
            Well I have a high opinion of the people on this board so I figured whats good ya'll is good for, outside of voicing, which voicing is personal. My goal has been been 30hz-20khz.....though my current tweeters start to roll of at 19khz and love the way they sound, thats likely irrelevant. I use a balanced minidsp for eq... 30hz to ~1000hz is what the woofer would handle, if I fulfilled this project. This thread is an alternative to my thread regarding a 3way with coaxial tops.I only today, found a driver, to entertain the 3 way

            http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/Beyma/5CX200Nd_N

            While combing loudspeaker database I decided to check compression drivers and found

            http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/F...HF146#16%CE%A9

            http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/F...HF10AK#8%CE%A9

            Having a naked midrange seems like a huge plus. Getting rid of 2 crossovers, is a huge plus, but now I have a crossover in the middle of my midrange, I honestly don't know whos winning!
            With the 3 way, the woofer would be responsible from 150hz and down.....but with the 2 way I'm looking at a crossover somewhere around 800-1000hz. Its just amazing to me that a speaker would be able to handle the excursion of an 808 tuned to the 30's and still emit accurately in the lower to mid, midrange, at a high volume. High volume to me would be what the JBL M2 claims 117db at one meter. The M2 has a 30hs f3...I'd basically be trying to create a m2 I guess but I, once again, am surprised that a woofer could handle all that material at once, with high excursion material.
            The woofer-horn combo for a 2-way is a time honored solution. You should realize it takes a good woofer to do it even vaguely well, as well as a big horn. That M2 woofer goes for about $1,000 as I recall.
            Francis

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            • #7
              I'll add, if you're serious about getting near 20kHz with large-format compression drivers, you'll want beryllium diaphragms. Once again, not cheap.
              Francis

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              • #8
                Some people have sourced parts to build their own M2 units, including the wave guide, from JBL. There have been threads at diyaudio.com. I don't know if anyone has finished, and I'm not sure if JBL got wise to what was going on (apparently the wave guide wasn't to be sold separately but someone found a part #?, my recollection is foggy).

                I think that would be the way I'd go, finishing with a MiniDSP unit and amps of my own choosing.

                I think a lot of the magic of that JBL M2 is the wave guide and compression driver combo. The bass driver that is probably not thermal compression limited in any practical sense is probably pretty amazing, too.

                I would love to hear some M2s if anyone in the Milwaukee area has some they'd like to play for me.

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                • #9
                  The EQ curve is very important, too. The technical price of that wide-dispersion waveguide is the frequency response isn't flat. Not a problem with modern EQ.
                  Francis

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                  • #10
                    My comments are if you intend these to be a reference for any kind of mixing or mastering. If these are "Put them on the back porch and party!" speakers, ignore me
                    Francis

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                    • #11
                      Depends on the definition of "high SPL" as well as room size and listening distance.

                      In an "average" residential room there are a number of MTM DIY kits that could fit the bill.

                      The Apollo MTM has massive power handling and output down to 36hz per its rated spec. With some DSP or other EQ love and plenty of power I'm sure it could be pretty flat to 30hz at the cost of some efficiency.

                      In a smaller room even the S2000 or Overnight Sensation MTM kits might fit the bill. They are around 91dB efficient, play strong to the 40-50hz range, and can handle 100W so they'll give you almost 110dB. If you're willing to trade 5 or 10dB of efficiency you can have more extension via DSP.

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                      • #12
                        And don't forget about the fact that the M2 needs a Crown 5000HD amp with DSP per speaker, so add another 12K or so to total cost, No crossovers so it takes 4 channels of DSP and amplification. Almost forgot you might need the JBL studio SUB18 for another 3500 bucks that's a recommended add on.

                        So I guess it's a two way speaker, if you don't count the subwoofer..........

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                        • #13
                          Why not make a 3-way that looks like a two-way? My current music monitors are exactly this and are what inspired me to make larger versions of them with my own added twist.

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                          • #14
                            the question is a little bit dumb imo. like asking if it is possible to get a wife with supermodel looks, is a fabulous cook, is genuinely a nice person, and makes lots of money

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ontariomaximus View Post
                              the question is a little bit dumb imo. like asking if it is possible to get a wife with supermodel looks, is a fabulous cook, is genuinely a nice person, and makes lots of money
                              Well, there does seem to be an excess of enthusiasm without grasping the basics.
                              Francis

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