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  • New recording studio system

    OK, so, this might be long winded and kinda all over the place but here it goes.

    I am replacing my playback system in my studio after 20+ years. I want to downsize a bit but still have an in-room response down in the 20's. It will have to play 105 dB with the lowest distortion possible. I also want it very flat, dynamic, very low distortion with as much clarity and resolution as possible. After tons of research I think I have settled on driver selection except maybe a tweeter. Although I am not fully locked into these drivers, I have a couple of others I am considering.

    The design will be a separate lower section with the bass drivers and a smaller separate unit up top for mids and highs. I don"t want the lower cabinet much bigger than 2 cubic feet. Crossover will be 300-500 Hz and probably around 3000 Hz.

    On to the drivers; At the moment, I want to use two Dayton RSS210HO-8 drivers per side. The biggest issue is the port is to long, so I decided I wanted PR's. I am having issues with the simulation. Mostly the amount of weight I need to add and the box doesn't seem big enough to physically mount 4 8" PR's. Maybe I can use a single 12" but that may not be enough cone area. Thoughts? Also, I was contemplating a Isobarik setup. Thoughts?

    The mid will be the Tang Band W4-1337, but have heard great things about the NE series from Vifa. How do they compare for what I am going for?

    I will add more info if needed, just ask. Oh, and the other driver I was considering was the CSS 10" but I like the idea of two 8's per side and think the 8's might perform better at higher frequencies. Thoughts?

  • #2
    Sounds like a far field setup right? I'm betting an active system DSP driven for crossover will be best for you. With that, any number of drivers would work well. Remember for PR's you want to double the displacement compared to your active driver. So a single 8" needs a pair of 8" PR's unless the Xmax is doubled for the PR.

    Also.. obligatory comment on SPL: Mixing at 105dB is generally not good for you mixes or your ears. Typical mix level is 86dB average. It's fine to crank it to see how that affects the mix, but sustaining... not for me.
    Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
    Wogg Music
    Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat

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    • #3
      Originally posted by wogg View Post
      Sounds like a far field setup right? I'm betting an active system DSP driven for crossover will be best for you. With that, any number of drivers would work well. Remember for PR's you want to double the displacement compared to your active driver. So a single 8" needs a pair of 8" PR's unless the Xmax is doubled for the PR.

      Also.. obligatory comment on SPL: Mixing at 105dB is generally not good for you mixes or your ears. Typical mix level is 86dB average. It's fine to crank it to see how that affects the mix, but sustaining... not for me.
      Thanks wogg, Yes I will be using active crossover 4th order LR. I was planning on two 8"s per side. Also, I would not be mixing at 105 dB but would crank it to that level to check mix at higher output. And yes, far field.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by wogg View Post
        Sounds like a far field setup right? I'm betting an active system DSP driven for crossover will be best for you. With that, any number of drivers would work well. Remember for PR's you want to double the displacement compared to your active driver. So a single 8" needs a pair of 8" PR's unless the Xmax is doubled for the PR.

        Also.. obligatory comment on SPL: Mixing at 105dB is generally not good for you mixes or your ears. Typical mix level is 86dB average. It's fine to crank it to see how that affects the mix, but sustaining... not for me.
        Yeah...it doesn't take long at 105dB.

        Click image for larger version

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        Francis

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        • #5
          Lol, I lost my hearing years ago. I have played drums for over 30 years.

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          • #6
            I guess if you've been smoking for years there's no reason to quit.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by djg View Post
              I guess if you've been smoking for years there's no reason to quit.
              Thanks for the help.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by analogkid442 View Post
                Lol, I lost my hearing years ago. I have played drums for over 30 years.
                Same... either behind the kit or next to it as the bassist. Tinnitus is a b**ch. I can still hear up to around 15k though, just not so much on my left for some reason.
                Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                Wogg Music
                Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat

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                • #9
                  Right ear for me, exhaust side of several motorcycles. Thanks Supertrapp.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by analogkid442 View Post
                    snip snip...

                    On to the drivers; At the moment, I want to use two Dayton RSS210HO-8 drivers per side. The biggest issue is the port is to long, so I decided I wanted PR's. I am having issues with the simulation. Mostly the amount of weight I need to add and the box doesn't seem big enough to physically mount 4 8" PR's. Maybe I can use a single 12" but that may not be enough cone area. Thoughts? Also, I was contemplating a Isobarik setup. Thoughts?
                    Anyway... back on topic. I'd stick with your RSS210 option. Use the 2 active drivers on front toward the top to keep them near your mid / high cabinets, center to center distance matters. For the PR's how about side mounting a pair of 10" RSS PR's? Those have plenty of Xmax and should handle whatever weight required.
                    Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                    Wogg Music
                    Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wogg View Post

                      Anyway... back on topic. I'd stick with your RSS210 option. Use the 2 active drivers on front toward the top to keep them near your mid / high cabinets, center to center distance matters. For the PR's how about side mounting a pair of 10" RSS PR's? Those have plenty of Xmax and should handle whatever weight required.
                      Thank you, sounds like a plan. I will try to model this and report back.

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                      • #12
                        So, I have a few questions regarding WinISD. When I model two RSS210's with the two 10" RSS PR's it is showing a peak at tuning and a dip above it. Why? Also, when I apply 50 watts to the signal it is showing 103 dB of output. To me, this does not compute. Is this 50 watts to each driver or 25 to each driver? also, does the excursion plot for each driver or a total for both?

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                        • #13
                          Kid - I ran the W4-1337 for a couple of years in the Mini-Statements until I decided that they really didn't suit me.
                          I'd characterize their sound as detailed, delicate. Not really robust, hard hitting, etc.
                          I did rework that design a couple of years ago with a Vifa NE123, and the sound quality improved a whole lot.
                          Also, if you want some clean volume in a studio, I'd suggest a 5 or even 6 inch mid.
                          I can't post links here, google the terms.
                          But if you are leaning towards a 4 inch mid, the SB Satori MW13P is outstanding.
                          Google "P215" or "Criton speaker" - you won't need the passive crossover, but either kit would make a great top end for your bottom.
                          Just my opinion. Have fun!

                          And I agree with you about volume. You probably won't run at 105dB peak for long, but you've got to be sure that your system can handle
                          that level cleanly. For one thing, clients like to hear their tracks pumping out.

                          I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                          "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                          High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                          SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                          My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                          Tangband W6-sub

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by donradick View Post
                            Kid - I ran the W4-1337 for a couple of years in the Mini-Statements until I decided that they really didn't suit me.
                            I'd characterize their sound as detailed, delicate. Not really robust, hard hitting, etc.
                            I did rework that design a couple of years ago with a Vifa NE123, and the sound quality improved a whole lot.
                            Also, if you want some clean volume in a studio, I'd suggest a 5 or even 6 inch mid.
                            I can't post links here, google the terms.
                            But if you are leaning towards a 4 inch mid, the SB Satori MW13P is outstanding.
                            Google "P215" or "Criton speaker" - you won't need the passive crossover, but either kit would make a great top end for your bottom.
                            Just my opinion. Have fun!

                            And I agree with you about volume. You probably won't run at 105dB peak for long, but you've got to be sure that your system can handle
                            that level cleanly. For one thing, clients like to hear their tracks pumping out.
                            Yes, exactly! ( about the SPL). And thank you. I will check those suggestions out.

                            If I may ask, in what ways did the NE improve the sound? I am assuming more robust and hard hitting, but can you elaborate.

                            I started out with 6.5" drivers when I started and then went to 5's. The 5 sounded better to me for whatever reason. The quality of the drivers were about the same. So I thought, why not try a 4. Also, the thinking was/is, I can take a little more heat off of the tweeter.

                            BTW, I am tri-amped at the moment with Adcom and Parasound amps.

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                            • #15
                              You'd have to specify box volume and Fb for someone to answer your ?
                              (although, if you don't like that, you should be able to flatten it out by making the box a bit smaller (-20%?) and adding some mass to the PRs (50g?).)

                              I believe the sim is showing your total SPL (based on the driver's 1w SPL) w/25 watts going to each driver, and Xmax is per driver.
                              That should be 106dB (based on 2.83v) into a (4 ohm) pair w/50 watts to each driver (right?).

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