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Wharfedale W60 - Driver Replacements

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  • Wharfedale W60 - Driver Replacements

    Hi all,

    First post here.

    I recently acquired a set of Wharfedale W60s. They are a ported two-way design. They have the cone tweeter (not the purple fried-egg), and the RS 12 DD woofer. The “crossover” runs the woofer full-range, and has a capacitor to keep low frequencies out of the tweeter.

    The soundstage is quite nice, and I also really like the mid-century modern look of the cabinets. The woofers, however, have voice coil rub.

    I am not confident that I could fix the woofers myself, so I’m looking at replacements. These seem as though they might be a good fit:
    https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...eaker--295-434

    The cabinets are just under 2 cubic feet, and the DS315-8 woofer calls for 1.9 cubic feet for a ported design.

    I was thinking to perhaps replace the tweeters and add a proper crossover while I’m at it. Maybe I shouldn’t?

    But the tweeter I’m thinking of would be this one:
    https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...eter--264-1676
    Here is the spec sheet:
    http://nedlab.com/wp/wp-content/uplo...-knock-off.pdf

    I would be interested to know your thoughts. Is this a good idea? Or should I only replace the woofers? If I added the tweeters, would 15khz be a suitable crossover point? Since these two drivers don’t have a ton of overlap, what kind of crossover would be best (something with a steeper slope, I assume)?

  • #2
    That box would need a 4"id port tube that's 11" long. Did you look at the driver's FR curve to see if it could play FR (doubtful)?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
      That box would need a 4"id port tube that's 11" long. Did you look at the driver's FR curve to see if it could play FR (doubtful)?
      By “FR curve” I assume you mean “frequency response” and by “play FR” you mean “full range”. The woofer’s range only extends up to around 2.5-3k, so no, certainty not full range.

      As for the port in the cabinet right now, it’s a front port 6-8” long and 1.5-2” in diameter (I should have measured it at the same time I took this photo). I’m not sure I could fit an 11” port in the box. How much space does there need to be between the tube opening and the cabinet wall?

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you tried rotating the woofers 180 degrees? That may solve the voice coil rub if it is caused by cone sag due to gravity and time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Billet View Post
          Have you tried rotating the woofers 180 degrees? That may solve the voice coil rub if it is caused by cone sag due to gravity and time.
          I’ve had the cabinets sitting on their back for about a month now, and sadly no improvement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Did you know that 50 yrs ago, a 12" 2-way wasn't THAT common (10"ers were). Today, NO ONE would suggest one.
            That said:
            This DS 12" can't run "full range", not because PE says it'll play to 3k, but because its got a GIANT HUMP over +10dB at 2.5k (cone breakup, no doubt).
            And 12" drivers start "beaming" below 1000Hz, that's why they work MUCH better in a 3-way.
            You COULD use this box (w/a new baffle) as a decent 8" 2-way (or possibly a 10" 3-way),
            but if you still are okay w/a 12" 2-way then to get bass down to 40Hz you should really fit in a port that's 4"id x 11" long.
            You can get the same tuning (35Hz) w/a 3"id x 6" long port, but expect some chuffing if you crank it up.
            You CAN use elbows on ports, they don't need to run straight.

            Also, since this will never be an "audiophile" speaker, your tweeter SEEMs pretty expensive, but one of its strong points is that it should be able to cross lower than many others.

            Here's a 2nd order HP for the tweeter: 1n(ohm) series resistor and a 7uF series cap, then a 0.60mH shunt coil (to ground, a #20 is fine). That's it!
            The woofer's LP filter is 3rd order (w/a "notch"):
            Use a 2.0mH (low DCR) series coil, WITH a 20n resistor in series w/a 16uF cap, both in PARALLEL ("across") that coil, then a 22uF shunt cap (to gnd), followed by a 2nd series coil (a 1.0mH), and finally (across the woofer) a Zobel using a 10n resistor in series w/a 16uF cap.

            The highs are FLAT (which is good). The mids will be a bit rough. But the bottom end (w/about 4dB of baffle-step compensation) should be strong. You'll have to get these up on a stand, and you should line the insides with some "convoluted foam rubber" (a Wal*mart "mattress-topper" works great).
            It SHOULD out-perform the old drivers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
              Did you know that 50 yrs ago, a 12" 2-way wasn't THAT common (10"ers were). Today, NO ONE would suggest one.
              That said:
              This DS 12" can't run "full range", not because PE says it'll play to 3k, but because its got a GIANT HUMP over +10dB at 2.5k (cone breakup, no doubt).
              And 12" drivers start "beaming" below 1000Hz, that's why they work MUCH better in a 3-way.
              You COULD use this box (w/a new baffle) as a decent 8" 2-way (or possibly a 10" 3-way),
              but if you still are okay w/a 12" 2-way then to get bass down to 40Hz you should really fit in a port that's 4"id x 11" long.
              You can get the same tuning (35Hz) w/a 3"id x 6" long port, but expect some chuffing if you crank it up.
              You CAN use elbows on ports, they don't need to run straight.

              Also, since this will never be an "audiophile" speaker, your tweeter SEEMs pretty expensive, but one of its strong points is that it should be able to cross lower than many others.

              Here's a 2nd order HP for the tweeter: 1n(ohm) series resistor and a 7uF series cap, then a 0.60mH shunt coil (to ground, a #20 is fine). That's it!
              The woofer's LP filter is 3rd order (w/a "notch"):
              Use a 2.0mH (low DCR) series coil, WITH a 20n resistor in series w/a 16uF cap, both in PARALLEL ("across") that coil, then a 22uF shunt cap (to gnd), followed by a 2nd series coil (a 1.0mH), and finally (across the woofer) a Zobel using a 10n resistor in series w/a 16uF cap.

              The highs are FLAT (which is good). The mids will be a bit rough. But the bottom end (w/about 4dB of baffle-step compensation) should be strong. You'll have to get these up on a stand, and you should line the insides with some "convoluted foam rubber" (a Wal*mart "mattress-topper" works great).
              It SHOULD out-perform the old drivers.
              This is great info, thank you! I believe a new baffle is probably the best course of action at this point, so I can ditch the 12” format.

              Does anyone have any leads on a 2 or 3 way combo that would work well for this cabinet size (~2 cu ft)? I’m hoping to stay under $250 for the drivers, perhaps closer to $200. A bonus if I can keep the crossover fairly simple.

              I will start researching some drivers myself, too.

              EDIT: I should add that I enjoy a lot of music from the 60s and 70s (mostly rock from that era) some jazz, blues. I like defined bass that is “heard” more than “felt”.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have a pair of those Wharfdales - or had. I pulled the woofers and used the cabinets as the woofer section of my hillbilly version of Paul Carmondy's Aethers. I mounted the Dayton DVC 8 on a baffle plate and screwed that in from the back, centering the woofer in the existing hole as best I could. I think I still have the original woofers - you can have them if you are willing to pay the shipping.

                That said, if it were me, I would upgrade them. I like those cabinets too, even though mine are a little dinged up. I would probably look at a nice 8" woofer - like the Peerless HDS. It'll mate to a dome tweeter better than a 12 or 10, especially since the stock woofer and tweeter cutouts likely won't end up being that close to each other. Modern 8's can put out quite a bit of bass in the right box - maybe more/better bass than the original woofers.
                Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tom_s View Post
                  I have a pair of those Wharfdales - or had. I pulled the woofers and used the cabinets as the woofer section of my hillbilly version of Paul Carmondy's Aethers. I mounted the Dayton DVC 8 on a baffle plate and screwed that in from the back, centering the woofer in the existing hole as best I could. I think I still have the original woofers - you can have them if you are willing to pay the shipping.

                  That said, if it were me, I would upgrade them. I like those cabinets too, even though mine are a little dinged up. I would probably look at a nice 8" woofer - like the Peerless HDS. It'll mate to a dome tweeter better than a 12 or 10, especially since the stock woofer and tweeter cutouts likely won't end up being that close to each other. Modern 8's can put out quite a bit of bass in the right box - maybe more/better bass than the original woofers.
                  Hmmm...that is tempting to have you send me the woofers. I assume they would be at least $50 to ship, probably more. Do you know what shipping would run? I’ll think about that as an option.

                  I’m really liking the look of that Peerless HDS! And I believe my cabinet would be close enough in size—the Peerless calls for 1.6 cu ft. I haven’t measured my W60’s interior dimensions exactly, so they may be closer to 1.6 than I think.

                  If I went for a two-way design, the Dayton DC28F seems like it could work for the tweeter...but might be a bit of a stretch. Do you think the Peerless woofer would be more suitable in a three-way design?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll have to double check to make sure I didn't pitch them - it's been years since I've actually laid eyes on them. But yes, with shipping rates for consumers going up every year, it might be wiser just to buy the Peerless with the free shipping. I think you're right about the volume of those cabinets - the Aether project called for 1.5 Cu Ft. for the woofers. Maybe after subtracting the tweeter boxes & port tube they came in close enough. I do remember cutting the port tubes down a little.

                    For tweeters - I would look at the Peerless DX25TG59 too. That one has a pretty good reputation and can cross a bit lower than the Silkie.
                    Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If the boxes are over-size for your woofer choice you can always reduce the volume by putting something inside to take up space, like a block of wood or a brick for example.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tom_s View Post
                        I'll have to double check to make sure I didn't pitch them - it's been years since I've actually laid eyes on them. But yes, with shipping rates for consumers going up every year, it might be wiser just to buy the Peerless with the free shipping. I think you're right about the volume of those cabinets - the Aether project called for 1.5 Cu Ft. for the woofers. Maybe after subtracting the tweeter boxes & port tube they came in close enough. I do remember cutting the port tubes down a little.

                        For tweeters - I would look at the Peerless DX25TG59 too. That one has a pretty good reputation and can cross a bit lower than the Silkie.
                        If I went with both the Peerless woofer and tweeter, would a 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley crossover around 1600-1800Hz work?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by skatz View Post
                          If the boxes are over-size for your woofer choice you can always reduce the volume by putting something inside to take up space, like a block of wood or a brick for example.
                          Hey this is a great trick! Never would have thought of that. Will “overstuffing” the cabinet with insulation also have the same effect?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jhawk View Post

                            If I went with both the Peerless woofer and tweeter, would a 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley crossover around 1600-1800Hz work?
                            I'm not sure. 1800...maybe. I'll let those with direct experience chime in on that. I do know Paul Carmody uses it in his Amiga kit at about LR4 at 2K. There's a big brother to that tweeter that I never noticed. It looks like it would be fine at LR2 1.6K.
                            Peerless DX25BG60-04 1" Silk Dome Tweeter 4 Ohm
                            Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Overstuffing a closed box can actually have effects similar to making the volume "appear" larger to the woofer (just the opposite).
                              Overstuffing a vented box will eventually kill the port output.
                              You need something non-porous in there (or add an internal divider).

                              Comment

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