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7-8" woofers for 3 ways. will you hear much difference scanspeak RS225

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  • Paul K.
    replied
    I've found the same thing in my experiences. The XT19 could be crossed pretty low, at least 2.5 kHz, possibly a bit lower, but I think there have been some changes over the years to it and the current version doesn't do as well?
    Paul

    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
    Hi Jessie
    Finally, if it's a budget design I would select one of the several I listed. I like 3/4" tweeters for their exceptional off axis response compared to 1" domes but crossover frequency becomes the deciding factor.
    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Hi Jessie,

    This is purely subjective. Again, its all about the application. If I have selected a mid that needs to cross below 2K, the RS28F would be my choice of your 3 tweeters. If I was using a smaller mid that could cross comfortably at 3.5K or higher and it was a budget conscious project, I'd use the NeoCD3.0. If I was using a mid that needed to cross in the 2K-3K area and I had the budget plus could use an open back on the tweeter, I'd go for the AST2560. That works extremely well in our Bordeaux design.

    Finally, if it's a budget design I would select one of the several I listed. I like 3/4" tweeters for their exceptional off axis response compared to 1" domes but crossover frequency becomes the deciding factor.

    Subjectively, the AST2560 has a combination of the NeoCD3.0 open airy sound with the precision of a dome. It strikes the right compromise to my ears. YMMV....

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    I have three that I really like. Each has a different application. The AC AST2560's are my current favorites. Stunning sound quality and accuracy, IMHO. Ribbons are always a favorite when you can cross high. Fountek NeoCD3.0's and Viawaves sound wonderful. Finally, I'm a big fan of Hiquphon dome tweeters.

    For less money, Seas 22TFF, Seas 27TDFC, SB dimple domes and several others, Scan 9130 (old HDS) and a bunch of others.

    HTH

    Jim
    I’m running the RS28f and the Neo 3.0 in speakers now. How much better do you like the AST2560’s?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
    Thanks for that simplified explanation Mr. Holtz.
    Your welcome but take it for what its worth. It's 2nd hand info and just my take on Curt's explanation.

    I'm old but not that old. Just call me Jim...

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    Thanks Jim, appreciate your opinions. So what has been your favorite tweeter of the ones you and Curt have utilized?
    I have three that I really like. Each has a different application. The AC AST2560's are my current favorites. Stunning sound quality and accuracy, IMHO. Ribbons are always a favorite when you can cross high. Fountek NeoCD3.0's and Viawaves sound wonderful. Finally, I'm a big fan of Hiquphon dome tweeters.

    For less money, Seas 22TFF, Seas 27TDFC, SB dimple domes and several others, Scan 9130 (old HDS) and a bunch of others.

    HTH

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Kornbread
    replied
    Thanks for that simplified explanation Mr. Holtz.

    Leave a comment:


  • dynamo
    replied
    If you can spare the space, to me the obvious solution is dual rs225. Still cheaper than the scans and way more surface area. All that cone area will result in lower excursion for the same output and thus lower distortion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Hi Jessie,

    Revelators, SB Satori's or Peerless NE series drivers performance is extremely subjective and opinions will vary with everyone. Measurement wise, they're all stellar. Another driver to throw in the mix is the SB CAC series. Powrider (Craig) had a two way based on a SB15CAC and a HiVi planer at Iowa that was very impressive. The CAC measures super low distortion and has an innovative cone design.

    Which one sounds best? It depends on who you ask. Personally, I like vocals from the NE's better than Revelators. Others wouldn't agree. I haven't spent enough time listening to Satori's to have a firm opinion. The CAC is very high on my radar.

    Sorry I can't be of more help but its all subjective so I's suggest you try to listen at DIY events or to proven designs using the drivers to make up your own mind. Yep, no help at all...

    jim
    Thanks Jim, appreciate your opinions. So what has been your favorite tweeter of the ones you and Curt have utilized?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Hi Jessie,

    Revelators, SB Satori's or Peerless NE series drivers performance is extremely subjective and opinions will vary with everyone. Measurement wise, they're all stellar. Another driver to throw in the mix is the SB CAC series. Powrider (Craig) had a two way based on a SB15CAC and a HiVi planer at Iowa that was very impressive. The CAC measures super low distortion and has an innovative cone design.

    Which one sounds best? It depends on who you ask. Personally, I like vocals from the NE's better than Revelators. Others wouldn't agree. I haven't spent enough time listening to Satori's to have a firm opinion. The CAC is very high on my radar.

    Sorry I can't be of more help but its all subjective so I's suggest you try to listen at DIY events or to proven designs using the drivers to make up your own mind. Yep, no help at all...

    jim
    Jim, you are always a help and I certainly appreciate you and all you do for DIY. I find you to be gracious and always willing to respond and help us DIY. Listening to speakers and music is subjective by nature and we can’t take that out of the discussion as subjective maybe the ultimate judgement. Subjective is fine with me and your “subjective” opinion and assessment is valued so I appreciate your input and opinions.

    So I am very impressed that you like the NE series mids compared to the likes of revelators and satori. Why spend double and triple when the returns are not there?

    I guess my next question to you would be of the different tweeters you have worked with(RS28f, Aurum 2560, Fountek, Morel CAT323, Seas 22tff, etc) which did you enjoy the most? I know it’s subjective so I’m interested in your subjective answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by rpb View Post

    Can you elaborate on diverging significantly? It seems everyone has differing opinions on what should happen off axis. I've built many speakers, but have not been able to pin down why I like one more than another.

    For example, do you think that this response is this diverging significantly?
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fi...4&d=1549767988
    I am no expert on crossovers. I try to pick Curt's brain as much as I can so I can at least talk semi inteligently when asked questions. So what I'm posting is my take on information Curt shared.

    Here is an example of SB's frequency graph for the mid driver we used in the Anthology's.

    Click image for larger version

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    Curt chose to cross these at 2K. They have excellent off axis power response. I'm sure there were other factors in his decision but the 30 degree off axis was a good part of it.

    HTH

    JIm

    Leave a comment:


  • Kornbread
    replied
    To mimic what Mr. Holtz said regarding the rs225 and extremely loud electronic music. There is no warning before they bottom and when they do, they protest very loudly. You will jump out of the chair when they make that drat sound. Fortunately, the spl level at which they give up is way up into the uncomfortable zone. With something similar to the Statements I have never felt the need for a sub and the few times I tried to integrate the IB's into the scene they only muddied the bass. The rs225 are very good on bottom.
    Last edited by Kornbread; 03-26-2019, 09:04 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpb
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    This question could be answered much better by Curt than I. He's the crossover guru of our collaboration. That said, here's what I've picked up from him over the years. Selecting a crossover point isn't set in stone, it's based on measurements.Higher frequency breakups, distortion and off axis power response are the main criteria you should look at. They all matter. A rule of thumb is around 2.5K and not over 3K for a 5" driver. If you look at off axis frequency response and it's diverging significantly at 30 degrees off axis, your off axis power response will suffer and so will sound quality. It's also an indicator of head in the vice listening which kills the soundstage, IMHO. To me, thats just not a realistic sound stage.

    My $0.02 worth. Curt's the genius, not I....

    Jim
    Can you elaborate on diverging significantly? It seems everyone has differing opinions on what should happen off axis. I've built many speakers, but have not been able to pin down why I like one more than another.

    For example, do you think that this response is this diverging significantly?
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fi...4&d=1549767988

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    Yes Jim I am running the NE123 in my statement monitors as I replaced the tang band 1337. I didn’t change the band pass yet but Curt did tell me what to do. Regardless that NE123 sound better.

    I would also also be flexible on moving to 3000 hz. Or using the 4”.

    So when you picked the NE mids for the statements II and finalist, how did they compete with some higher end mid ranges? Was it a value proposition or was it a case of outright performance?
    Hi Jessie,

    Revelators, SB Satori's or Peerless NE series drivers performance is extremely subjective and opinions will vary with everyone. Measurement wise, they're all stellar. Another driver to throw in the mix is the SB CAC series. Powrider (Craig) had a two way based on a SB15CAC and a HiVi planer at Iowa that was very impressive. The CAC measures super low distortion and has an innovative cone design.

    Which one sounds best? It depends on who you ask. Personally, I like vocals from the NE's better than Revelators. Others wouldn't agree. I haven't spent enough time listening to Satori's to have a firm opinion. The CAC is very high on my radar.

    Sorry I can't be of more help but its all subjective so I's suggest you try to listen at DIY events or to proven designs using the drivers to make up your own mind. Yep, no help at all...

    jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Subjectively, either a Peerless NE123 (Statements II mid) or a Satori MR13P would be my 1st choices. IMHO, 3.5K is too high for a 5" driver to cross. A 4" will do it comfortably. Both of these drivers are very low distortion and will provide excellent midrange performance and sound quality.

    HTH

    Jim
    Yes Jim I am running the NE123 in my statement monitors as I replaced the tang band 1337. I didn’t change the band pass yet but Curt did tell me what to do. Regardless that NE123 sound better.

    I would also also be flexible on moving to 3000 hz. Or using the 4”.

    So when you picked the NE mids for the statements II and finalist, how did they compete with some higher end mid ranges? Was it a value proposition or was it a case of outright performance?

    Leave a comment:


  • chrisn
    replied
    My vote is for the RS225. A more fair comparison would be the RS225 vs the Scan 22w/8857. I would also consider the Wavecor SW223BD02. Furthering the depth of the rabbit hole, I'd also look at using multiple 7-8 drivers, or using a 10-12" for the low end.

    Leave a comment:

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