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Soldering xo change sound?

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  • Soldering xo change sound?

    I got my voicing zeroed in nicely on my Burhoes but wanted to try a different inductor....trying to see if I could bring the upper bass/lower mids a little more fwd by using a ‘super q’ of the same value because it had it little lower dcr.

    Well long story short I changed out from the jantzen 15ga solid wire air core for the super q , after a couple hours listening found I didn’t like it at all so it came out and jantzen went back.....I went ahead and soldered the jumper wires back on, the same jumper wires that were used before....cut new ends on wire to solder....cleaned the jantzen ends....the only thing different was the caps were still connected to the other end of the jumpers. Caps are 3” of 14ga wire away from solder joint so it did not overheat anything, and yes they were discoed from the amp. Same wbt solder.

    The sound was concerning when I fired it up.....lost all micro detail and pushed the soundstage way back....acoustic guitars now sound like the pick with no pluck.

    Checked and double checked everything.....it’s all the same.
    the sound is coming back gradually but is still not all the way back.

    so could this be something along the lines of the soldering gun ‘upsetting’ the caps?

    bob

  • #2
    You sure you didn’t short something when you put it all back together or something!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by philthien View Post
      You sure you didn’t short something when you put it all back together or something!
      I shut off my power supply strip whenever I’m messing with the wiring and also disconnect the speaker wire from the amp when soldering.

      It’s a simple 2nd order lp / 1st order hp.....not much to screw up.

      checked that the inductors were wired the same (center in / outer out) if that actually matters? Everything was the same.

      an explanation could be that the caps had just started to open up (probably around 40-50 hrs) and i’ve heard there’s a period after burn in where they revert to a inferior sound for a bit then opening back up.

      Could be the soldering kick started the inferior phase or was coincidently timed.......its slowly opening back up.

      this is all based on test tracks i’m Intimately familiar with......y’all can bust on me all ya want, I know what i’m hearing.

      I remember reading that the solder joint itself needs time to settle in.....I can’t recall where I saw that, but it just now came to me I had read it.



      bob

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      • #4
        I Use a sweep source and set the level to low-moderate level and sweep audio signal up and down over the full audio range for a couple of minutes. I also use rain sound YouTube videos over night to run in caps and drivers. I’ll wait for the hate mail. Welcome to the club for people who admit what they hear.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountainman Bob View Post

          so could this be something along the lines of the soldering gun ‘upsetting’ the caps?

          bob
          You're not really using a soldering gun are you?

          What brand solder?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by djg View Post

            You're not really using a soldering gun are you?

            What brand solder?
            Weller model 7200 (75w)......WBT 4% silver

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fdieck View Post
              I Use a sweep source and set the level to low-moderate level and sweep audio signal up and down over the full audio range for a couple of minutes. I also use rain sound YouTube videos over night to run in caps and drivers. I’ll wait for the hate mail. Welcome to the club for people who admit what they hear.
              do you ever hear any difference after soldering?


              Alot might ‘know’ more than I do but it seems I hear better than most , it’s night and day to me.

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              • #8
                I use a Weller soldering station set to 700 degrees on recommendation of avionics techs I worked with. I use vintage Ersin Multicore 60/40, a roll I got from my Dad. I use wet paper towel bits in alligator clips as heat sinks. Your gun ads state 1050 degree temp.

                I just ordered a pair of kits with PC boards for the XOs, first time for that.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by djg View Post
                  I use a Weller soldering station set to 700 degrees on recommendation of avionics techs I worked with. I use vintage Ersin Multicore 60/40, a roll I got from my Dad. I use wet paper towel bits in alligator clips as heat sinks.

                  I just ordered a pair of kits with PC boards for the XOs, first time for that.
                  Yah I researched it a bit before using the gun as some say never use them on electronics, but it’s more about the extra heat doing damage than the style of gun.
                  quick and hot is ok if you don’t dawdle. When I do solder the caps i’m going to make a heat sink from some copper stock and a small clamp.

                  I was holding the wire from the inductor with bare fingers and learned quick where too hot was.....fingers make a pretty good heat sink!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A couple of comments while I have coffee.....
                    1. A gun is fine as long as you don't apply too much heat.
                    2. The kind of solder is immaterial as long as it's not acid core. Solder is usually picked out in commercial use based on it's mechanical and thermal properties.
                    3. Solder joints don't break in. Complete and utter rubbish.
                    4. Caps might break in, can you hear it, maybe. They do age which is process measured in years not hours. In utterly high reliability environments, >5 9s, components might go through 100 hours of temperature cycling, humidity and vibration before assembly and then again after assembly.

                    Sounds to me, no pun intended, like you might have a cold solder joint. Take the gun and just reheat each solder point until the solder rewets. Don't move things while it cools. A good solder joint should have a fairly uniform shiny surface, not dull and pitted

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountainman Bob View Post
                      Yah I researched it a bit before using the gun as some say never use them on electronics, but it’s more about the extra heat doing damage than the style of gun.
                      Component damage is less likely with a high wattage gun. Getting the joint up to temperature fast is a much better alternative than having it take forever with a low wattage gun. However:
                      y’all can bust on me all ya want, I know what i’m hearing.
                      Acoustical engineers worth their salt are well aware that they don't know what they're hearing. They may trust their ears, but they always verify with measured data. Required viewing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

                      www.billfitzmaurice.com
                      www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by devnull View Post

                        Sounds to me, no pun intended, like you might have a cold solder joint. Take the gun and just reheat each solder point until the solder rewets. Don't move things while it cools. A good solder joint should have a fairly uniform shiny surface, not dull and pitted
                        Thanks Devnull,

                        that makes the the most sense as it was an immediate change in sound.

                        i’ll redo those joints and see, although the sound has slowly been opening up again......and no it’s not me just ‘getting used to it’


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                          Component damage is less likely with a high wattage gun. Getting the joint up to temperature fast is a much better alternative than having it take forever with a low wattage gun. However: Acoustical engineerse worth their salt are well aware that they don't know what they're hearing. They may trust their ears, but they always verify with measured data. Required viewing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
                          I watched the first 10 minutes of that video and got the point pretty quickly......in fact I think I remember watching it b4.

                          In response to that;

                          i fully agree that we live in a world of mediocre understandings......as in most people don’t care to go the extra mile or put any more thought into anything than they have to.

                          I on the other hand I have been diligent throughout my entire life to see,hear,and feel what makes my world tick.....at 3 yo I fully disassembled my grandparents Electrolux just to see why it sucked!

                          Testing extremes has always been a favorite of mine......skepticism is a religion for me.

                          So in a nutshell.....I have trained myself over the years in the art of comparisons.

                          you don’t have to believe that I have anymore ability to hear these things I reference but please don’t dismiss the possibility because you can’t.

                          bob


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The solder debate rages across the internet. I didn't even look in diyaudio.

                            Best Solder?? | Audiogon Discussion Forum

                            Best type of solder for audio quality | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by djg View Post
                              It's like they'll do anything except learn good engineering. I guess magical thinking is easier...
                              Francis

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